Question for Atheists
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16-04-2014, 08:54 PM (This post was last modified: 17-04-2014 08:14 AM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Question for Atheists
(16-04-2014 08:46 PM)JDog554 Wrote:  
(16-04-2014 08:31 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Maybe before we get our undies in a knot over a "prophesy" we should find out what the role of a prophet actually was in ancient Hebrew culture.
http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/forum/...#pid257278
Deuteronomy 18:10
"Let no one be found among you who sacrifices their son or daughter in the fire, who practices divination or sorcery, interprets omens, engages in witchcraft."

One of the dirty little secrets of Biblical scholarship is there is almost NOT ONE major mainline OT scholar who buys into "prophesy as prediction" business. The looking for "secret meanings" in texts arose late, during the Apocalypic period. Most of the things that were predicted never happened. I hope you know that the "end-times" for a Jew (you DID talk about the temple), was the re-establishment of the Kingdom of David, and eveything was going to hunky-dory. So...IF you buy into Jewish Apocalypticism you should be happy the end-times are about to come. The hundreds of book of "Revelation" which were written after the destruction of Jerusalem were multicultural amalgamations of the many horror stories floating around.

Let me see if I can get this straight. Your saying that originally there was not supposed to be any apocalyptic prophecies, those were "added in" later and Revelations was just a bunch of horror stories stitched together about the destruction of Jerusalem?

I'm saying that fortune-telling and reading omens and predicting the future was forbidden in ancient Israel. Later (towards the millenium) it became fashionable to ignore that rule, and look for "peshers" (secret meanings) in certain texts. The role of "prophet" was not to tell the future. A prophet was an advisor, ... a wise man or woman, as in "you better not do this or that or, *thus and so* 'could' be a bad result"...such as "you better brush your teeth or you'll get cavities". NOT "brush your teeth or they'll fall out when you're 24".

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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16-04-2014, 08:59 PM
RE: Question for Atheists
(16-04-2014 08:54 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(16-04-2014 08:46 PM)JDog554 Wrote:  Let me see if I can get this straight. Your saying that originally there was not supposed to be any apocalyptic prophecies, those were "added in" later and Revelations was just a bunch of horror stories stitched together about the destruction of Jerusalem?

I'm saying that fortune-telling and reading omens and predicting the future was forbidden in ancient Israel. Later (towards the millenium) it became fashionable to ignore that rule, and look for "peshers" (secret meanings) in certain texts. The role of "prophet" was not to tell the future. A prophet was an advisor, ... a wise man (or woman) (as in "you better not do this or that or, *thus and so* 'could' be a bad result"... like "you better brush your teeth or you'll get cavities". NOT "brush your teeth or they'll fall out when you're 24".

Ah, got ya. Thank you for that information. I don't believe in any religion as I am atheist but just the thought of some big apocalyptic event happening scares the crap out of me.

"If you keep trying to better yourself that's enough for me. We don't decide which hand we are dealt in life, but we make the decision to play it or fold it" - Nishi Karano Kaze
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17-04-2014, 02:10 AM
RE: Question for Atheists
Never heard of it, but I'll speak about prophecy in general.

This world is fucked up. I mean FUCKED up. If you can imagine a thing happening, someone, somewhere, has likely done it. There are 7 billion people on the planet and a virtually infinite supply of possible instances ranging from a blade of grass being bent in a certain way as someone steps on it to entire nations carrying out certain actions. Given enough time, pretty much anything within the realm of possibility could happen.

With that being the case, it's not difficult to "prophesy" things. Even specific things. You'll see many christians pointing to fulfilled prophecies of "wars and rumors of wars" taking place on Earth, but is that really so significant? There have been wars and rumors of wars for as long as there have been different societies. People like to war with one another. "Earthquakes in one place after another?" We live on a tectonic planet. It doesn't take divine inspiration to predict that the ground is gonna shake from time to time.

When it comes to prophecy, there is very, very little reason - if any - to invest any measure of belief in the nature of the claim being made. Most specifically, in the divinity of the claim. I don't need godly insight to know that within the next year, I will feel a sense of discomfort during a situation which requires my full confidence. I don't need to receive a vision in order to know that I'll be driving a different brand of vehicle 5 years from now. I don't need God himself to come to me in a dream and tell me I'm gonna jack off in the morning. These things happen. It's part of life. Not all that difficult to predict.

Let's talk about all the shit that DIDN'T come true. See where that gets us.

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17-04-2014, 02:16 AM
RE: Question for Atheists
Speaking of "prophecies", I'd like to once again bring up this wonderful quote I recently ran across, from the late great Carl Sagan:

"If ‘fulfilled prophecy’ is your criterion, why do you not believe in materialistic science, which has an unparalleled record of fulfilled prophecy?"

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17-04-2014, 02:36 AM
RE: Question for Atheists
(16-04-2014 07:06 PM)JDog554 Wrote:  
(16-04-2014 06:59 PM)Chas Wrote:  Fuck prophecy.

It's all bullshit. Drinking Beverage

I agree, but i'm one of those types of people that get scared by stuff like this easily, even though I don't believe in it it gets my anxiety going and it makes me really think.

stay grounded, cool your jets, trust your rational brain, dismiss the bullshit
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17-04-2014, 04:24 AM
RE: Question for Atheists
(17-04-2014 02:36 AM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  stay grounded, cool your jets, trust your rational brain, dismiss the bullshit

That.

Seriously, people like you are who the religious nuts count on. They want you to feel scared, they want you to be frightened into thinking like they do. Religion can be summed up thusly: It is a means of controlling people through fear, and by promising extravagant and fantastical reward for obedience.

Keep calm, and carry on my friend. Life is beautiful and lasting, drink of the cup and enjoy it.

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17-04-2014, 04:59 AM (This post was last modified: 17-04-2014 05:07 AM by Mat0816.)
RE: Question for Atheists
(16-04-2014 07:01 PM)JDog554 Wrote:  
(16-04-2014 06:50 PM)Paranoidsam Wrote:  Never heard of it.

(16-04-2014 06:55 PM)Monster_Riffs Wrote:  Never heard of it mate. Seeing as it's 'prophecy', that's hardly surprising Smile
Feel free to enlighten us on the details! Thumbsup

In Israel there is a destroyed Temple and this Temple was destroyed twice. In the Bible there is supposedly a prophecy that states the temple will be rebuilt for a third time to signal end of times or something like that, there's a lot to it.

The bible also says bats are birds, that the earth can stop rotating with absolutely no adverse consequences to the life forms existing on it, and that you can stand atop a mountain and see "all four corners" of a spherical planet.

Color me un-impressed with its predicative ability.
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17-04-2014, 06:32 AM
RE: Question for Atheists
(16-04-2014 07:06 PM)JDog554 Wrote:  
(16-04-2014 06:59 PM)Chas Wrote:  Fuck prophecy.

It's all bullshit. Drinking Beverage

I agree, but i'm one of those types of people that get scared by stuff like this easily, even though I don't believe in it it gets my anxiety going and it makes me really think.

Man up and ignore the bullshit.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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17-04-2014, 06:38 AM
RE: Question for Atheists
(16-04-2014 08:59 PM)JDog554 Wrote:  
(16-04-2014 08:54 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  I'm saying that fortune-telling and reading omens and predicting the future was forbidden in ancient Israel. Later (towards the millenium) it became fashionable to ignore that rule, and look for "peshers" (secret meanings) in certain texts. The role of "prophet" was not to tell the future. A prophet was an advisor, ... a wise man (or woman) (as in "you better not do this or that or, *thus and so* 'could' be a bad result"... like "you better brush your teeth or you'll get cavities". NOT "brush your teeth or they'll fall out when you're 24".

Ah, got ya. Thank you for that information. I don't believe in any religion as I am atheist but just the thought of some big apocalyptic event happening scares the crap out of me.

Well, then, you ought to worry about real things like the Yellowstone supervolcano, the Azores megatsunami, asteroid strikes, global pandemics, and the like. Drinking Beverage

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Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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17-04-2014, 07:46 AM
RE: Question for Atheists
TopTen Natural Disaster List for the US


"Life is a daring adventure or it is nothing"--Helen Keller
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