Question for anti-abortion atheists
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21-10-2011, 03:43 PM
RE: Question for anti-abortion atheists
I'm fairly anti-abortion and I gave you an answer. I don't believe in a soul but I do believe that a fetus turns into a life rather quickly. You can detect a heartbeat as early as like 6 weeks with the right equipment. A clump of cells that has a heartbeat independent of its mother, or host, is, by definition, an independent life. And, not all clump of cells are created equal. Cells that make up a human fetus certainly are not equivalent of cancer cells. This may seem ironic given what I said on the Gaddafi thread but I think this casual approach to life, where we can just flush away an unborn baby as so much trash and be done with it, is fairly reprehensible. That does not mean I believe abortion should be banned in all cases (I don't) or even that there should not be some period of time in the pregnancy where it can be terminated for whatever reason. I personally think "hey, I changed my mind" is a pretty pathetic reason but, whatever, it's not my life or my place to dictate morality to everyone else. But, there should be a line in the sand at which the baby has rights too. Sure, there are always going to be situations where maybe you have to take action and end the pregnancy. If the mother gets cancer and needs chemo and radiation and she's 15 weeks pregnancy, I think you let mom take steps to keep on living. I think that is a no-brainer. But, to allow 3rd trimester abortions without some legitimate medical reason? Yes, I have an issue with that.

So, there's an answer. Take it for what you will.

My question to you is: where do you draw the line? Can a woman have an abortion up until the day the baby is born? If she's at 40 weeks, in labor, but has not yet delivered, can she still choose to terminate that pregnancy? And, if not, then why not? How do you draw the line?

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21-10-2011, 05:06 PM
RE: Question for anti-abortion atheists
Was your statement about heartbeats your justification of the proposition? Because I don't see any other answer in what you said.
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21-10-2011, 06:09 PM
RE: Question for anti-abortion atheists
Heartbeat = life. I'm not sure what else you're looking for? Are you looking for me to embrace a theological explanation? Sorry, I can't do that because I don't believe in it. Are you looking for me to take a hardline position on what should or should not be allowed? Sorry, I'm not going to do that either. All I can tell you is that, having seen that flash of light at 6 - 8 weeks, seen the limbs move at 12 weeks, and watch those mass of cells develop into a baby, I can tell you, without doubt or hesitation, that it is a life and worthy of protection.

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21-10-2011, 06:11 PM
RE: Question for anti-abortion atheists
No, that's a fine answer. I was just wondering if that was your answer or not.
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21-10-2011, 06:24 PM
RE: Question for anti-abortion atheists
Ok. I'm not sure what the point is then or what you're looking for. Also, I'd kind of like an answer to my question about as to at what point, if any, an abortion should be prohibited and why.

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21-10-2011, 07:21 PM
RE: Question for anti-abortion atheists
As I ask in the OP, my question is, how do anti-abortion atheists justify propositions about life, beingness, consciousness, personhood, etc. starting at conception.

I don't want this thread to turn into a discussion of my position, which is extremely controversial and not relevant to this question.
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21-10-2011, 07:36 PM
RE: Question for anti-abortion atheists
Fair enough.

I never made a comment about consciousness either way, but I don't think anyone, even the ultra-religious, argues that a fetus possesses consciousness. And, after reading your clarification, I may not be the right person to help you out here. I've never made any claim about life beginning at conception or any of that. I honestly never gave that aspect of it much though. Also, at some point in this thread someone brought up the "morning after" pill. Personally, I have absolutely no problem with it at all. A woman who wakes up the next morning and wants to be sure she's not going to have a baby in 9 months - have at it. Personally, I see that as being responsible.

Anyway, to the point of your question; I'm not sure when human life starts, exactly, and I really don't know where the line should be drawn abortion. I can only tell you where it would be drawn for me, personally.

Sorry if that's not what you're looking for.

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21-10-2011, 07:46 PM
RE: Question for anti-abortion atheists
That's fine. But you still consider the heartbeat to be your justification?
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21-10-2011, 08:03 PM
RE: Question for anti-abortion atheists
I feel like I'm being set up here but, yes. Is a heartbeat not a justification? Actually, a better question is: a justification for what, exactly? What is it you think I'm justifying?

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21-10-2011, 08:07 PM
RE: Question for anti-abortion atheists
(21-10-2011 08:03 PM)BnW Wrote:  I feel like I'm being set up here but, yes. Is a heartbeat not a justification? Actually, a better question is: a justification for what, exactly? What is it you think I'm justifying?

A justification for where you draw the line between "abortable" and "not abortable," I assume.
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