Question for atheists...
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30-03-2016, 06:30 AM
RE: Question for atheists...
(30-03-2016 06:27 AM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  These are my arguments:
1. There exist no thing in physical reality where 1/9th can be shown at the Planck level, therefore 1/9th isn't a real number, it is only an average.
2. When in comes down to the "Planck length" (the most accurate measurement there is) for any given thing, fractions become either accurate numbers or averages dependent on the fraction being used. 1/9th is an average, whereas 1/2 is accurate.
3.

And, as per usual, your "arguments" are incoherent and indicate that you don't even understand what the words you are attempting to use mean, let alone how they are actually applied.

Stop trying to build arguments based on things you don't understand.

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30-03-2016, 06:37 AM (This post was last modified: 30-03-2016 07:44 AM by Chas.)
RE: Question for atheists...
(30-03-2016 06:27 AM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  
(30-03-2016 06:13 AM)Chas Wrote:  Oh, dear. You do not understand numbers.

Fractions are not averages. Read a math book.
It was inevitable that you would say that in an argument against me.
In the event that you are having difficulty winning an argument simply state that said individual "doesn't understand" the subject & suggest that they read a bible, oops i mean book, to find the answer.

I am making a true observation. Deal with it.

Quote:Why redirect the conversation when if you can simply rebutt the arguments put foward with simple logic.

Your argument is nonsense and has been rebutted.

Quote:These are my arguments:
1. There exist no thing in physical reality where 1/9th can be shown at the Planck level, therefore 1/9th isn't a real number, it is only an average.

1/9 is a real number, as are pi and e.

Quote:2. When in comes down to the "Planck length" (the most accurate measurement there is) for any given thing, fractions become either accurate numbers or averages dependent on the fraction being used. 1/9th is an average, whereas 1/2 is accurate.

The Planck length has no proven physical significance.

Quote:3.

3?

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Science is not a subject, but a method.
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30-03-2016, 06:39 AM
RE: Question for atheists...
(30-03-2016 06:30 AM)Unbeliever Wrote:  
(30-03-2016 06:27 AM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  These are my arguments:
1. There exist no thing in physical reality where 1/9th can be shown at the Planck level, therefore 1/9th isn't a real number, it is only an average.
2. When in comes down to the "Planck length" (the most accurate measurement there is) for any given thing, fractions become either accurate numbers or averages dependent on the fraction being used. 1/9th is an average, whereas 1/2 is accurate.
3.

And, as per usual, your "arguments" are incoherent and indicate that you don't even understand what the words you are attempting to use mean, let alone how they are actually applied.

Stop trying to build arguments based on things you don't understand.

And as usual you are spouting counter arguments based on your beliefs (similar to a Theist) without attempting to provide any evidence.
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30-03-2016, 06:40 AM
RE: Question for atheists...
(30-03-2016 06:37 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(30-03-2016 06:27 AM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  It was inevitable that you would say that in an argument against me.
In the event that you are having difficulty winning an argument simply state that said individual "doesn't understand" the subject & suggest that they read a bible, oops i mean book, to find the answer.

I am making a true observation. Deal with it.

Quote:Why redirect the conversation when if you can simply rebutt the arguments put foward with simple logic.

Your argument is nonsense and has been rebutted.

Quote:These are my arguments:
1. There exist no thing in physical reality where 1/9th can be shown at the Planck level, therefore 1/9th isn't a real number, it is only an average.

1/9 is a real number, as is pi and e.

Quote:2. When in comes down to the "Planck length" (the most accurate measurement there is) for any given thing, fractions become either accurate numbers or averages dependent on the fraction being used. 1/9th is an average, whereas 1/2 is accurate.

The Planck length has no proven physical significance.

Quote:3.

3?

It's there. Was editing.
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30-03-2016, 07:23 AM
RE: Question for atheists...
Quote:Remember, you are the guy that would rather believe that the universe popped in to being, out of nothing....BEFORE you even ENTERTAIN the idea of the God Hypothesis.
...which says god made the universe pop into being out of nothing. How fucking ingenuous.
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30-03-2016, 07:29 AM
RE: Question for atheists...
(30-03-2016 06:39 AM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  
(30-03-2016 06:30 AM)Unbeliever Wrote:  And, as per usual, your "arguments" are incoherent and indicate that you don't even understand what the words you are attempting to use mean, let alone how they are actually applied.

Stop trying to build arguments based on things you don't understand.

And as usual you are spouting counter arguments based on your beliefs (similar to a Theist) without attempting to provide any evidence.

It has already been explained that "Planck length" does not mean what you think it means. Nor does "average". "1/9 shown at the Planck level" is a nonsense statement. It has no meaning. The Planck "level" has nothing to do with the quantity of 1/9. Nor is 1/9, in any sense, an "average" because of this.

Presumably, what you are attempting to say is that there is no irrational number which is instantiated in the real world, because you believe that the universe is fundamentally discrete (which you attempt, very clumsily, to express via obsession with the Planck length) and thus all actual quantities - that is, all which are instantiated in the universe - must be expressible in terms of rational, whole numbers. All irrational numbers are simply accidents of mathematics, expressed as closely as they can be ("averages").

Unfortunately, even clarified as above (because it's a complete mess of incoherent dog shit as-is), your "argument" is complete tripe. Aside from the fact that space-time has not yet been established to be discrete (and no, that is not what the Planck length means, it is a theoretical, hypothesized, possible interpretation of its meaning in bleeding-edge quantum mechanics), 1/9 does not stop existing (or being irrational) even if it is.

You don't understand physics, you don't understand math, and you don't even understand basic English.

Come back after you've done some actual research.

"Owl," said Rabbit shortly, "you and I have brains. The others have fluff. If there is any thinking to be done in this Forest - and when I say thinking I mean thinking - you and I must do it."
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30-03-2016, 07:36 AM
RE: Question for atheists...
(30-03-2016 07:29 AM)Unbeliever Wrote:  Come back after you've done some actual research.

Sadly that may prove impossible for Shane. I'd expect him to handle addition and subtraction, but beyond that...

Incidentally 1/9 is rational Tongue

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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30-03-2016, 07:39 AM
RE: Question for atheists...
(30-03-2016 07:36 AM)morondog Wrote:  
(30-03-2016 07:29 AM)Unbeliever Wrote:  Come back after you've done some actual research.

Sadly that may prove impossible for Shane. I'd expect him to handle addition and subtraction, but beyond that...

Incidentally 1/9 is rational Tongue

Yes, my bad. I got momentarily mixed up between 1/9 and pi. Irrational, infinitely repeating, et cetera.

I'd go back and fix it, but a) I'm on a phone so editing is difficult and b) I don't give enough of a damn, since Shane remains wrong regardless.

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30-03-2016, 07:39 AM
RE: Question for atheists...
(30-03-2016 06:27 AM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  
(30-03-2016 06:13 AM)Chas Wrote:  Oh, dear. You do not understand numbers.

Fractions are not averages. Read a math book.
It was inevitable that you would say that in an argument against me.

Yes it is, though not for the reasons you think but rather due to the fact your track record of not knowing what the hell your talking about on any given subject is 100%.

He also explains WHY you don't understand, so quit your blubbering.

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30-03-2016, 07:55 AM (This post was last modified: 30-03-2016 08:29 AM by Agnostic Shane.)
RE: Question for atheists...
(30-03-2016 07:29 AM)Unbeliever Wrote:  
(30-03-2016 06:39 AM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  And as usual you are spouting counter arguments based on your beliefs (similar to a Theist) without attempting to provide any evidence.

It has already been explained that "Planck length" does not mean what you think it means. Nor does "average". "1/9 shown at the Planck level" is a nonsense statement. It has no meaning. The Planck "level" has nothing to do with the quantity of 1/9. Nor is 1/9, in any sense, an "average" because of this.

Presumably, what you are attempting to say is that there is no irrational number which is instantiated in the real world, because you believe that the universe is fundamentally discrete (which you attempt, very clumsily, to express via obsession with the Planck length) and thus all actual quantities - that is, all which are instantiated in the universe - must be expressible in terms of rational, whole numbers. All irrational numbers are simply accidents of mathematics, expressed as closely as they can be ("averages").

Unfortunately, even clarified as above (because it's a complete mess of incoherent dog shit as-is), your "argument" is complete tripe. Aside from the fact that space-time has not yet been established to be discrete (and no, that is not what the Planck length means, it is a theoretical, hypothesized, possible interpretation of its meaning in bleeding-edge quantum mechanics), 1/9 does not stop existing (or being irrational) even if it is.

You don't understand physics, you don't understand math, and you don't even understand basic English.

Come back after you've done some actual research.
1/9th cannot stop existing if it never existed in the first place.
You are claiming 1/9th exists simply because we need it to work maths. It is a logical necessity for the purpose of communication.
It is a philosophical argument.
Things don't exist in physical reality just because we need it, they exist because it is proven to exist. <---- isn't this what you believe as an Atheist? It's not necessarily my belief, but as far as I can tell it's yours.

This is why your philosophical argument is unable to be used in physical reality.
Any object that you can present that "to the best of our knowledge" can undergo a separation will eventually hit a limit in it's division & is therefore not infinite.
Only when you do not specify a limit (lack of knowledge) will it go to infinity. If you cannot prove an unspecified number exists then it remains an unspecified number & purely hypothetical.
It's an obvious statement to those are obvious of it
You apparently are not obvious of it & have taken the stance that infinity exists in physical reality, but you are using hypothetical examples as evidence.
Hypothetical examples are not evidence <---- this is the flaw in your logic. Hit it out of the ball park and you win your case. I don't mind losing an argument to a good challenger. Please be that person.
Good luck.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planck_length
Planck length
In physics, the Planck length, denoted ℓP, is a unit of length, equal to 1.616199(97)×10−35 metres. It is a base unit in the system of Planck units, developed by physicist Max Planck. The Planck length can be defined from three fundamental physical constants: the speed of light in a vacuum, the Planck constant, and the gravitational constant.

Planck length is what stops us from going to a "hypothetical infinity"

There is a difference between claiming infinity does not exist and claiming that we have no evidence for it's existence.
Don't mistake my stance for the former, or you will hit a brick wall in this debate.
Calling on the power of your Math , Physics & English bibles/books will not help you if they do not support your beliefs.

The instant you claim an unproven hypothesis is true regardless of any evidence for it is the day CotW wins this debate. Do you really want to go down that road?
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