Question for atheists...
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 2 Votes - 3 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
30-03-2016, 08:55 AM
RE: Question for atheists...
(30-03-2016 08:53 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(30-03-2016 08:51 AM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  Oh, when it comes to the "you don't understand" shit, Chas and Unbeliever are the kings of that. Whenever they are getting their ass kicked handed to them, they resort to the "you don't understand" shit. As if they are so smart, and we are so dumb Laugh out load

Its not that we don't understand, its that we understand, we just don't ACCEPT it. Especially when we are asking questions that you can't answer.

No, you two really are dreadfully ignorant in mathematics and physics.
That is an opinion.
Here is another one:
You are dreadfully ignorant of how to provide a proper counter argument,
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
30-03-2016, 08:56 AM
RE: Question for atheists...
(30-03-2016 08:51 AM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  Oh, when it comes to the "you don't understand" shit, Chas and Unbeliever are the kings of that.

I do not suffer fools gladly, and see no point in treating blatant idiocy as anything but.

Quote:As if they are so smart, and we are so dumb Laugh out load

Essentially, yes.

"Owl," said Rabbit shortly, "you and I have brains. The others have fluff. If there is any thinking to be done in this Forest - and when I say thinking I mean thinking - you and I must do it."
- A. A. Milne, The House at Pooh Corner
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Unbeliever's post
30-03-2016, 08:58 AM (This post was last modified: 30-03-2016 09:10 AM by Agnostic Shane.)
RE: Question for atheists...
(30-03-2016 08:54 AM)Unbeliever Wrote:  
(30-03-2016 08:31 AM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  Describe an apple in it's entirety using the Planck length limit (proven to exist by science) and you will soon realize 1/9th is a hypothetical number.

Thank you for establishing so clearly that you did not read, understand, or care about what you are responding to. You don't know what fractions are, you don't know what the Planck length is or what it signifies in physics, and it is becoming increasingly obvious that you have the reading comprehension of a pre-schooler.

Even assuming that the universe is discrete (which still has not been proven, despite your claims to the contrary), fractions still exist. Fractions are portions of a given unit; the fact that these portions could also be described as units unto themselves is irrelevant.

You don't understand a damn thing that you try to talk about.
Oh. I do so love games:
My turn now right?

Thank you for establishing so clearly that you did not read, understand, or care about what you are responding to. You don't know what fractions are, you don't know what the Planck length is or what it signifies in physics, and it is becoming increasingly obvious that you have the reading comprehension of a pre-schooler.

Even assuming that the universe is not discrete (which still has not been proven, despite your claims to the contrary), fractions still exist in theory. Fractions are portions of a given unit; the fact that these portions could also be described as units unto themselves is irrelevant.

You don't understand a damn thing that you try to talk about

Your turn

Let me know when you realize I am not arguing on behalf of a discrete or non discrete universe, instead I am arguing from an agnostic position.
When you do we will stop playing your game ok?
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
30-03-2016, 10:08 AM
RE: Question for atheists...
(30-03-2016 08:58 AM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  Let me know when you realize I am not arguing on behalf of a discrete or non discrete universe, instead I am arguing from an agnostic position.

No, you are arguing from a position wherein you do not understand the definitions of the terms that you try to use. Your proclaimed "agnosticism" is irrelevant to the fact that everything you say is either flatly wrong or complete gibberish.

"Owl," said Rabbit shortly, "you and I have brains. The others have fluff. If there is any thinking to be done in this Forest - and when I say thinking I mean thinking - you and I must do it."
- A. A. Milne, The House at Pooh Corner
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Unbeliever's post
30-03-2016, 10:17 AM (This post was last modified: 30-03-2016 10:36 AM by Agnostic Shane.)
RE: Question for atheists...
(30-03-2016 10:08 AM)Unbeliever Wrote:  
(30-03-2016 08:58 AM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  Let me know when you realize I am not arguing on behalf of a discrete or non discrete universe, instead I am arguing from an agnostic position.

No, you are arguing from a position wherein you do not understand the definitions of the terms that you try to use. Your proclaimed "agnosticism" is irrelevant to the fact that everything you say is either flatly wrong or complete gibberish.
What are you on about? I know that I dont know because I have never seen any evidence for it and I don't have to prove that I don't know.
You are arguing from a position that you do know, so I simply ask you to provide evidence.
You are constantly providing hypothetical ideas that have no basis in physical reality and when i show you that you run around like a headless chicken spouting stuff about some books you think can prove your point which you obviously can't do yourself. Yet you call foul when CotW does it.

If I were to use your insane technique at providing evidence this is what this debate is going to devolve into:
"The church of the sub genius has overwhelming evidence that infinity exists"
Nuh Uh...
Is true
Is not
Is true
Is not

Get on with the evidence for spaghetti monster's Sake.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
30-03-2016, 10:34 AM
RE: Question for atheists...
(30-03-2016 08:31 AM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  Describe an apple in it's entirety using the Planck length limit (proven to exist by science) and you will soon realize 1/9th is a hypothetical number.
The statement "1 apple" is only a simplified understanding that is used to simply quantify the components of everything that makes up the state of the apple in question.

You are not addressing his example. He said he had 9 discrete apples. 1/9 of them is 1 apple. You are attempting to confuse the issue, (or you don't understand it).

Quote:If you attempt to divide "1 apple" you will also be attempting to divide it's components into quantifiable parts. If ever you actually take the time to do that, science steps in and limits your ability to divide it's specific components past a certain amount.

No it doesn't. Tell us what components of an apple (exactly) are smaller than one Planck Length, and what their size is.

Quote:This limit is called Planck length and it disproves infinity as far as our collective knowledge is concerned.

It does nothing of the sort. You have not demonstrated why or how that is true, only asserted it.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
30-03-2016, 10:50 AM (This post was last modified: 30-03-2016 11:39 AM by Agnostic Shane.)
RE: Question for atheists...
(30-03-2016 10:34 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(30-03-2016 08:31 AM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  Describe an apple in it's entirety using the Planck length limit (proven to exist by science) and you will soon realize 1/9th is a hypothetical number.
The statement "1 apple" is only a simplified understanding that is used to simply quantify the components of everything that makes up the state of the apple in question.

You are not addressing his example. He said he had 9 discrete apples. 1/9 of them is 1 apple. You are attempting to confuse the issue, (or you don't understand it).

Quote:If you attempt to divide "1 apple" you will also be attempting to divide it's components into quantifiable parts. If ever you actually take the time to do that, science steps in and limits your ability to divide it's specific components past a certain amount.

No it doesn't. Tell us what components of an apple (exactly) are smaller than one Planck Length, and what their size is.

Quote:This limit is called Planck length and it disproves infinity as far as our collective knowledge is concerned.

It does nothing of the sort. You have not demonstrated why or how that is true, only asserted it.
Great answer Bucky.
This is where I find flaw with that logic:
You cannot divide 9 discrete things in math.
In math you can only divide things based on their similarities & not their differences.
Put your hypothetical example into a practical situation as described below and watch what happens:

I have a total of 9 apples. 5 extra large ones and 4 very small ones.
All are apples, yet each one with a discrete, shape, mass, etc.
Give me 1/9th of the total apples you have and then work the math.
You give me the smallest one.
Did I really get 1/9th of the total apples you have?
Please prove it using scientific analysis instead of some form of mental gymnastics and I will concede your point.

Here I will give you the results of a controlled test:
9 apples exist each with 10 exact components each = 90 components
All the scientific tests reveal these components cannot be divided any further.
You will never end up with more or less than 10 components per apple. Therefore 10/90 is the reality of the total components.
10/90 does not represent an infinite amount of components per apple.

What is the use of mentioning an infinite amount of recurring decimals when we already have a specific answer to the question of how many apples we got?
It's only useful when you have a hypothetical situation where the total components are unknown.
Therefore infinity belongs to the realm of the unspecified and is therefore an unproven hypothesis.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
30-03-2016, 11:25 AM
RE: Question for atheists...
(30-03-2016 10:34 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  You are not addressing his example. He said he had 9 discrete apples. 1/9 of them is 1 apple. You are attempting to confuse the issue, (or you don't understand it).

I did mention this, yes.

Unfortunately, as his immediate response to your post demonstrates yet again, he does not understand the point. Fractions exist because it is possible to divide a given unit into portions; the fact that the portions themselves may then be labeled as another unit is irrelevant.

Or, to restate it in kindergarten language, if I take one apple out of nine apples, the fact that I have one complete apple doesn't change the fact that I still have one-ninth of the initial total.

"Owl," said Rabbit shortly, "you and I have brains. The others have fluff. If there is any thinking to be done in this Forest - and when I say thinking I mean thinking - you and I must do it."
- A. A. Milne, The House at Pooh Corner
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Unbeliever's post
30-03-2016, 11:32 AM (This post was last modified: 30-03-2016 11:44 AM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Question for atheists...
(30-03-2016 10:50 AM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  
(30-03-2016 10:34 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  You are not addressing his example. He said he had 9 discrete apples. 1/9 of them is 1 apple. You are attempting to confuse the issue, (or you don't understand it).


No it doesn't. Tell us what components of an apple (exactly) are smaller than one Planck Length, and what their size is.


It does nothing of the sort. You have not demonstrated why or how that is true, only asserted it.
Great answer Bucky.
This is where I find flaw with that logic:
You cannot divide 9 discrete things in math.
In math you can only divide things based on their similarities & not their differences.
Put your hypothetical example into a practical situation as described below and watch what happens:

I have a total of 9 apples. 5 extra large ones and 4 very small ones.
All are apples, yet each one with a discrete, shape, mass, etc.
Give me 1/9th of the total apples you have and then work the math.
You give me the smallest one.
Did I really get 1/9th of the total apples you have?
Please prove it using scientific analysis instead of some form of mental gymnastics and I will concede your point.

No one said anything about dividing the "total mass of the apples". Each apple is a separate entity. It's YOU that's doing the gymnastics here. If you had stated you wanted to divide the "total mass" of the apples, that might be different, but you didn't (and I'm not so sure about that either, as the Planck Length is much smaller than any known discrete form of matter ... which is why I asked the question you ignored).

So I ask again. What portion of the matter is indivisible ?

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
30-03-2016, 11:47 AM (This post was last modified: 30-03-2016 12:27 PM by Agnostic Shane.)
RE: Question for atheists...
(30-03-2016 11:32 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(30-03-2016 10:50 AM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  Great answer Bucky.
This is where I find flaw with that logic:
You cannot divide 9 discrete things in math.
In math you can only divide things based on their similarities & not their differences.
Put your hypothetical example into a practical situation as described below and watch what happens:

I have a total of 9 apples. 5 extra large ones and 4 very small ones.
All are apples, yet each one with a discrete, shape, mass, etc.
Give me 1/9th of the total apples you have and then work the math.
You give me the smallest one.
Did I really get 1/9th of the total apples you have?
Please prove it using scientific analysis instead of some form of mental gymnastics and I will concede your point.

No one said anything about diving the "total mass of the apples". Each apple is a separate entity. It's YOU that's doing the gymnastics here. If you had stated you wanted to divide the "total mass" of the apples, that might be different, but you didn't (and I not so sure about that either, as the Planck Length is much smaller than any known discrete form of matter ... which is why I asked the question you ignored).

So I ask again. What portion of the matter is indivisible ?
Here I will give you the results of a controlled test:
9 apples exist each with 10 exact components = 90 components (pick any number you want, practical science will limit you eventually & I'm speaking about what "we know" here or go find a church)
All the scientific tests will eventually reveal these components cannot be divided any further. <---- the indivisible parts you were asking for
You will never end up with more or less than 10 components per apple. Therefore 10/90 is the reality of the total components.
10/90 does not represent an infinite amount of components per apple as far as scientific testing and current knowledge is concerned.
There will never be 100/900 components or anything infinitely larger as far as the reality of the apples are concerned.

What is the use of mentioning an infinite amount of recurring decimals, denominators, numerators when we already have a specific answer to the question of how many apples we got?
Infinity is useless & meaningless as far as examining physical reality is concerned except for the purpose of speculation and mental fappery.
Of course I don't mind mental fappery, so we can chat some more about it if you like, just don't take the "exists in physical reality" high ground that you love to piss on the theists with or you just might look up and find me doing the same.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply
Forum Jump: