Question for atheists...
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17-10-2016, 03:08 PM
RE: Question for atheists...
(16-10-2016 10:13 PM)Paleophyte Wrote:  
(16-10-2016 08:34 PM)AnaBunny Wrote:  That's how it seems to me. If I'm with a bunch of little kids who all believe in Santa, I won't look weird if I say I believe in Santa.

What you're describing is called the Argument from Popularity. It's a well-loved logical fallacy that says just because many, many people believe something to be true doesn't mean that they aren't all wrong. The truth of a statement is independant of the number of people who believe it.

For example, how many times have you heard that glass is an extremely viscous, super-cooled liquid? It isn't. It's a solid and Victorian era telescopes would be utterly useless now if the glass in their optics flowed. That doesn't stop it from being a widely held belief.

And Santa is a good deal more logically consistent, believable, better written and all-round more likeable than the overwhelming majority of deities.

That said, you are all too right about the peer-pressure. A quick look around this board will show you how many atheists are in the closet in the bible belt. The proportions are much lower up here in Canada. It's easy to be one more red flower in a bed of roses.

In some cases, it goes beyond just peer pressure. Some people fear that if they come out as an atheist to their religious community, they could end up losing their family, their friends, and possibly their jobs. Religious communities often ostracize and advocate ostracizing those that leave the flock.
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17-10-2016, 03:11 PM (This post was last modified: 17-10-2016 03:19 PM by jennybee.)
RE: Question for atheists...
(16-10-2016 11:31 PM)WhiskeyDebates Wrote:  
(16-10-2016 08:34 PM)AnaBunny Wrote:  That's how it seems to me. If I'm with a bunch of little kids who all believe in Santa, I won't look weird if I say I believe in Santa.
Right...but that wouldn't make your belief any less absurd. What is and is not an absurd belief is not determined by popular vote, but rather by how close the belief is to reality.

It doesn't matter how many people think my house is made out of chocolate and unicorn kisses, if they can't demonstrate it as true then that belief is absurd even if EVERYONE believes it.

The time to believe something is AFTER it's been demonstrated to be accurate. To do so before is irrational.

Very true. But as Ana says the need for belonging in a community often outweighs someone's desire to challenge (even absurd) beliefs.
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17-10-2016, 06:05 PM
RE: Question for atheists...
(17-10-2016 03:08 PM)jennybee Wrote:  In some cases, it goes beyond just peer pressure. Some people fear that if they come out as an atheist to their religious community, they could end up losing their family, their friends, and possibly their jobs. Religious communities often ostracize and advocate ostracizing those that leave the flock.

I know. I was lumping those in as obscene extremes of peer pressure. You're right though, those behaviours go above and beyond.

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Flesh and blood of a dead star, slain in the apocalypse of supernova, resurrected by four billion years of continuous autocatalytic reaction and crowned with the emergent property of sentience in the dream that the universe might one day understand itself.
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17-10-2016, 06:21 PM
RE: Question for atheists...
(14-10-2016 07:52 PM)evenheathen Wrote:  
(14-10-2016 12:27 PM)theBorg Wrote:  The atheists are our "brothers and sisters", an atheist is our "suffering Christ".

Just like you are not, let's say, a Muslim: they are not the "false theists". But they are the beloved people for the Jesus Christ. They are the "lasts", who can become the "firsts" (see this part in the Gospel). This is the way to think about the people, the way to compassion and the true love. They are after the true love, they are after the "angel" in our hearts:



That was actually fucking poetic man. I like it.

Cheers.

Sheer Poe-Try!
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17-10-2016, 08:54 PM
RE: Question for atheists...
(17-10-2016 03:11 PM)jennybee Wrote:  
(16-10-2016 11:31 PM)WhiskeyDebates Wrote:  Right...but that wouldn't make your belief any less absurd. What is and is not an absurd belief is not determined by popular vote, but rather by how close the belief is to reality.

It doesn't matter how many people think my house is made out of chocolate and unicorn kisses, if they can't demonstrate it as true then that belief is absurd even if EVERYONE believes it.

The time to believe something is AFTER it's been demonstrated to be accurate. To do so before is irrational.

Very true. But as Ana says the need for belonging in a community often outweighs someone's desire to challenge (even absurd) beliefs.

Exactly. I did not mean that a belief is less absurd if more people share it. What I meant is that I understand why people might have absurd beliefs. Sorry, maybe I worded it strangely?
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17-10-2016, 08:58 PM
RE: Question for atheists...
(15-10-2016 03:11 PM)Commonsensei Wrote:  First addressing Ana's comment.

Dose a popularity of a belief make it more true?
Or is it how it can be tested?

No to both questions. Not at all.
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17-10-2016, 11:46 PM
RE: Question for atheists...
(17-10-2016 03:08 PM)jennybee Wrote:  In some cases, it goes beyond just peer pressure. Some people fear that if they come out as an atheist to their religious community, they could end up losing their family, their friends, and possibly their jobs. Religious communities often ostracize and advocate ostracizing those that leave the flock.

I think also that because of this those who have doubts and are hiding them may be vociferous in ostracising others - similar to how anti-gay crazy people seem to be often in the closet themselves.

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If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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18-10-2016, 12:32 AM
RE: Question for atheists...
(17-10-2016 01:52 PM)Commonsensei Wrote:  ...........
Dogma's can not be held in science. ............
Personal opinion are irrelevant. .......... Nor do I have any examples of a being that would be counted as a god in Real Life. .........

1) Please give us the list of dogma's, which were destroyed by the Science.

2) The complexity of the human brain is more than the complexity of Universe. Thus, pay some respect to the opinions. They are OUTPUTS. Look: when the GRID of CERN computers gave the final answer: "Higgs Boson does exist", the people are paying respect to this output, however nobody can trace it.

3) Read about the Jesus Christ. The Bible, and the interpretation of the Holy Fathers.
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18-10-2016, 01:38 AM
RE: Question for atheists...
(18-10-2016 12:32 AM)theBorg Wrote:  
(17-10-2016 01:52 PM)Commonsensei Wrote:  ...........
Dogma's can not be held in science. ............
Personal opinion are irrelevant. .......... Nor do I have any examples of a being that would be counted as a god in Real Life. .........

1) Please give us the list of dogma's, which were destroyed by the Science.

2) The complexity of the human brain is more than the complexity of Universe. Thus, pay some respect to the opinions. They are OUTPUTS. Look: when the GRID of CERN computers gave the final answer: "Higgs Boson does exist", the people are paying respect to this output, however nobody can trace it.

3) Read about the Jesus Christ. The Bible, and the interpretation of the Holy Fathers.

1. Please go do your own fucking research. Even the wikipedia history of science article has plenty of info.
2. Don't cite shit you don't understand.
3. Go fuck yourself.

We'll love you just the way you are
If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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18-10-2016, 02:42 AM
RE: Question for atheists...
(18-10-2016 12:32 AM)theBorg Wrote:  
(17-10-2016 01:52 PM)Commonsensei Wrote:  ...........
Dogma's can not be held in science. ............
Personal opinion are irrelevant. .......... Nor do I have any examples of a being that would be counted as a god in Real Life. .........

1) Please give us the list of dogma's, which were destroyed by the Science.

2) The complexity of the human brain is more than the complexity of Universe. Thus, pay some respect to the opinions. They are OUTPUTS. Look: when the GRID of CERN computers gave the final answer: "Higgs Boson does exist", the people are paying respect to this output, however nobody can trace it.

3) Read about the Jesus Christ. The Bible, and the interpretation of the Holy Fathers.

1) Dont insult our intellect by assuming we are so stupid to think you are that stupid
2) Nonsense, remember?
3) I did, its crap, mostly.

Ceterum censeo, religionem delendam esse
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