Question for atheists...
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12-03-2017, 03:31 PM (This post was last modified: 12-03-2017 03:37 PM by JesseB.)
RE: Question for atheists...
(12-03-2017 01:32 PM)Peebothuhul Wrote:  
(12-03-2017 12:05 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  Why is my name always associated with "Proceed with Caution"?
I'm a very nice guy once you get to know me... Really I am.

Indeed you are quite civil, unlike Call Of, Celestial Wonder and others who've graced the forums. Thumbsup

(12-03-2017 12:05 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  ......... but I have a theory that a sentient observer is most likely the cause of what we perceive as reality. That sentient observer is us.

Our reality is only observed because we choose to observe it.
All realities exist but it is only when we attempt to observe it that it can present itself for observation.
Reality, therefore, is not created but simply observed.

Amazing facts:
Perfectly identical twins never share the exact same personality. The only thing physically different about them from birth is their brain wave frequency. Every brain caries it's own frequency & is unique to that brain.
E=mc2 therefore nothing can be created or destroyed within a closed system.
So what produced this frequency and what happens to it when we die?

Further speculation:
In this system 2 or more observers will only end up observing the same reality depending on which path they choose.
All cognitive life forms are examples of sentient observers
Observation begins and ends only when we die but it does not collapse anything

Even further speculation (really bordering on fairy tale here):
All observers are removed parts of a single bored sentient source (is one)
When we die our personality goes back to the source (alpha/omega)
All observers are unique (free will)
Specific observers can enter the system more than once if the source wills (dejavu/reincarnation)
Less observers = bored source (thou shall not kill/10 commandments/blah blah)
Source has no power over reality (global suffering)
Source can only interfere with the system via special observers (prophets) but cannot change reality
We are a product of the sources boredom
If the full source entered the system all observers would become one and the system would crash
Time (a series of events) does not exist outside of the system
The system is always being influenced for the source's entertainment

Questions:
Why does the source need worship?
Where does the devil fit into all of this?
Where does hell fit into all of this?
What does it matter where we come from and where we are going if nothing we do can change it?

However, that above is such an over blown bunch of woo as to be ludicrous teetering on the brink of lunacy. No

I would like to think I'm far more reasonable and civil than any theist out there. I am after all an Atheist. I'm not prone to buying into woo, be it coming from religion or political ideology, or pseudoscience bullshit. Unfortunately if you do promote any of that I will call you out on it, but I will also try to be civil and reasonable with you. I don't hold grudges and I will never hate you. But I will tell you if I think you're wrong or if your support for your position is shaky. And I will back my stuff up with evidence, I sincerely hope you have the intellectual integrity to acknowledge when I do, and not mindlessly repeat yourself without adding anything to the discussion as many people are prone to doing.

That said I have made no claims, I have simply offered an honest fair analysis of what your "reputation" profile on this website suggests. I make no claims as to its veracity, I only offer it as a possible answer to why people preface your name with, "Approach with caution." You asked a question, I gave you a fair answer. No hostile intent, no claims made, just a simple analysis of the thoughts others have made public regarding you. In time I will form my own judgments, they may or may not line up with everyone else's judgement. Just be patient.

Fair deal?

DLJ Wrote:And, yes, the principle of freedom of expression works both ways... if someone starts shit, better shit is the best counter-argument.
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12-03-2017, 03:56 PM
RE: Question for atheists...
(12-03-2017 03:31 PM)JesseB Wrote:  
(12-03-2017 01:32 PM)Peebothuhul Wrote:  Indeed you are quite civil, unlike Call Of, Celestial Wonder and others who've graced the forums. Thumbsup


However, that above is such an over blown bunch of woo as to be ludicrous teetering on the brink of lunacy. No

I would like to think I'm far more reasonable and civil than any theist out there. I am after all an Atheist. I'm not prone to buying into woo, be it coming from religion or political ideology, or pseudoscience bullshit. Unfortunately if you do promote any of that I will call you out on it, but I will also try to be civil and reasonable with you. I don't hold grudges and I will never hate you. But I will tell you if I think you're wrong or if your support for your position is shaky. And I will back my stuff up with evidence, I sincerely hope you have the intellectual integrity to acknowledge when I do, and not mindlessly repeat yourself without adding anything to the discussion as many people are prone to doing.

That said I have made no claims, I have simply offered an honest fair analysis of what your "reputation" profile on this website suggests. I make no claims as to its veracity, I only offer it as a possible answer to why people preface your name with, "Approach with caution." You asked a question, I gave you a fair answer. No hostile intent, no claims made, just a simple analysis of the thoughts others have made public regarding you. In time I will form my own judgments, they may or may not line up with everyone else's judgement. Just be patient.

Fair deal?
I'm here for the criticism my friend. I want to hear the objections and weigh them against my arguments.
I'm not looking for friends on an online forum where almost everyone here prefers anonymity.
These only value these forums have are the objections and arguments on a daily basis.
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12-03-2017, 05:10 PM
RE: Question for atheists...
@Agnostic Shane

As long as you acknowledge other people's points, and keep up with the conversation/debate. As long as you bring something of value to the debate. Even if I disagree with you I can't really ask more of you than that. There's value in the exchange of ideas. There's value in openly and honestly accepting criticism, pushing yourself to learn and grow.

I expect people to call me out when I'm wrong, and challenge me even when I'm right. I don't run from this I welcome it. It's part of an intellectually honest, healthy, integrity driven mindset I think. I hope you mean what you say. If you do I don't think I'll have any real problems with you. That goes for anyone, and everyone. I think its the most fair offer anyone can give or expect in a place like this.

DLJ Wrote:And, yes, the principle of freedom of expression works both ways... if someone starts shit, better shit is the best counter-argument.
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12-03-2017, 05:19 PM
RE: Question for atheists...
(12-03-2017 05:10 PM)JesseB Wrote:  @Agnostic Shane

As long as you acknowledge other people's points, and keep up with the conversation/debate. As long as you bring something of value to the debate. Even if I disagree with you I can't really ask more of you than that. There's value in the exchange of ideas. There's value in openly and honestly accepting criticism, pushing yourself to learn and grow.

I expect people to call me out when I'm wrong, and challenge me even when I'm right. I don't run from this I welcome it. It's part of an intellectually honest, healthy, integrity driven mindset I think. I hope you mean what you say. If you do I don't think I'll have any real problems with you. That goes for anyone, and everyone. I think its the most fair offer anyone can give or expect in a place like this.
Ok. So is there any objection to what I said?
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12-03-2017, 05:27 PM
RE: Question for atheists...
Not so far Shane, trust me, If I object to anything you say I will be very clear about it. And annoyingly nerdy, and generally likely to be well researched before I post. I will also attempt to ensure you don't ignore points you don't like, and I'll be painstakingly thorough in my responses addressing every point you make. It's quite time consuming really, but sometimes it becomes necessary. Again, this applies to anyone and everyone and isn't specifically about you Shane.

The TL DR version for you? If I object to anything, you'll fucking know Wink

Peace!

DLJ Wrote:And, yes, the principle of freedom of expression works both ways... if someone starts shit, better shit is the best counter-argument.
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12-03-2017, 05:48 PM
RE: Question for atheists...
(12-03-2017 03:23 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  ----
---
- The only plausible solution is a reality where all universes exist simultaneously & we are the observers choosing which path to view.
----

Kinda demanding there ... for someone just observing. Shy

A new type of thinking is essential if mankind is to survive and move to higher levels. ~ Albert Einstein
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12-03-2017, 06:17 PM
RE: Question for atheists...
(12-03-2017 05:48 PM)kim Wrote:  
(12-03-2017 03:23 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  ----
---
- The only plausible solution is a reality where all universes exist simultaneously & we are the observers choosing which path to view.
----

Kinda demanding there ... for someone just observing. Shy
Picture this laugh is if it were a robot saying it:
Ha HaShocking
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12-03-2017, 07:08 PM
RE: Question for atheists...
(12-03-2017 05:48 PM)kim Wrote:  
(12-03-2017 03:23 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  ----
---
- The only plausible solution is a reality where all universes exist simultaneously & we are the observers choosing which path to view.
----

Kinda demanding there ... for someone just observing. Shy

I have to agree with Kim on this, I haven't followed thee whole discussion, however one must first demonstrate that this statement first

A) Is a plausible position to hold
B) Has no other plausible explanations that may be equally valid.

No attempt is made in this statement to address either. In short, its a malformed position that comes across as a bit of an Assertion in the absence of justification, evidence or knowledge.

This statement also Imply's that humans have more control over their "path" than is possible based on logic structure alone. First who's control of my reality takes precedence? Mine? Kims? Shanes? our good mod momma's? (oh wait she has ban-hammer her's likely DOES have precedence lol). This is very reminiscent of arguments about the problem of evil that try to insert free will, it seems to assume in many ways that all outcomes are determined by intent (ignoring often potential conflicts involved in such an assumption), and ignores the possibility that the world is far more random than many are comfortable with.

In short... that statement needs work, I suggest going back to the drawing board and trying again.

DLJ Wrote:And, yes, the principle of freedom of expression works both ways... if someone starts shit, better shit is the best counter-argument.
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12-03-2017, 09:35 PM
RE: Question for atheists...
(12-03-2017 10:25 AM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  I'm Agnostic Atheist, but I have a theory that a sentient observer is most likely the cause of what we perceive as reality. That sentient observer is us.

And this "theory", like everything else you post, is utter nonsense.

(12-03-2017 10:25 AM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  Our reality is only observed because we choose to observe it.

No.

(12-03-2017 10:25 AM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  All realities exist but it is only when we attempt to observe it that it can present itself for observation.

No.

(12-03-2017 10:25 AM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  Reality, therefore, is not created but simply observed.

No.

(12-03-2017 10:25 AM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  Amazing facts:
Perfectly identical twins never share the exact same personality. The only thing physically different about them from birth is their brain wave frequency.

No.

(12-03-2017 10:25 AM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  E=mc2 therefore nothing can be created or destroyed within a closed system.

No.

(12-03-2017 10:25 AM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  In this system 2 or more observers will only end up observing the same reality depending on which path they choose.

No.

(12-03-2017 10:25 AM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  All observers are removed parts of a single bored sentient source (is one)
When we die our personality goes back to the source (alpha/omega)

No.

(12-03-2017 10:25 AM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  Specific observers can enter the system more than once if the source wills (dejavu/reincarnation)

No.

(12-03-2017 10:25 AM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  Less observers = bored source (thou shall not kill/10 commandments/blah blah)
Source has no power over reality (global suffering)
Source can only interfere with the system via special observers (prophets) but cannot change reality
We are a product of the sources boredom
If the full source entered the system all observers would become one and the system would crash
Time (a series of events) does not exist outside of the system
The system is always being influenced for the source's entertainment

No.

(12-03-2017 10:25 AM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  Questions:
Why does the source need worship?
Where does the devil fit into all of this?
Where does hell fit into all of this?
What does it matter where we come from and where we are going if nothing we do can change it?

No, no, no, and no.

N-O NO.

"Owl," said Rabbit shortly, "you and I have brains. The others have fluff. If there is any thinking to be done in this Forest - and when I say thinking I mean thinking - you and I must do it."
- A. A. Milne, The House at Pooh Corner
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12-03-2017, 10:45 PM
RE: Question for atheists...
(12-03-2017 03:23 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  Bring something to the table my friend. You're just stating your opinion without justifying anything.

Hello.

Well... usually I'm trying to keep up with threads while being busy at work. (Guess what I'm doing now as I type this? Yes, getting ready to go to work)

If you do want a discourse between ourselves then I can (A) start a thread just for us maybe down in the Colosseum and (B) Your posts to myself will probably have to be a single point raised since I generally have little time to post and it takes a rather large effort to pick away at a phone screen.

But other wise, yeah, I'm happy to engage with you. Thumbsup
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