Question for atheists...
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20-03-2016, 06:11 PM
RE: Question for atheists...
(20-03-2016 10:08 AM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  Simple task; Go in a lab and create a fully functional human eyeball from scratch. Can you do that? No, you can't. You are an intelligent human being, with vision, correct? So why can't you go in a lab and create a fully functional eyeball?

Your ignorance is astounding.

(20-03-2016 10:08 AM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  Yet, a mindless process..a blind process (nature) was able to create not only one eyeball, but two. It didn't know what it was doing, and it didn't SEE what it was doing, yet...it did it?

Yet, you can't do it? If you don't see the faith it takes to believe that, I don't know what to tell you.

Your ignorance is astounding.

(20-03-2016 10:08 AM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  Sure, change on a micro-level...if every living organism on this planet disappeared EXCEPT dogs....a billion years later, there will be many different varieties of dogs over those billion years..but they will all be DOGS...they will all be the same "kind" of animal, no matter how much time passes.

No geneticist or SPECIALIST in science recognizes the bullshit of "kind".
Your ignorance is astounding.

(20-03-2016 10:08 AM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  That is unscientific nonsense. It is voodoo science. It is not supported.

You are unqualified to comment on this matter. At all.
Your ignorance is astounding.

(20-03-2016 10:08 AM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  At least my explanation of who did it has intelligence. Your explanation doesn't have any intelligence.

Your ignorance is astounding.

(20-03-2016 10:24 AM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  Because I actually have evidence that Jesus Christ rose from the dead

No you don't. Your ignorance, even of religion, is astounding.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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20-03-2016, 06:29 PM (This post was last modified: 20-03-2016 06:48 PM by Agnostic Shane.)
RE: Question for atheists...
(20-03-2016 05:17 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(19-03-2016 07:39 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  I don't know if a God or Gods exists and if it does I am not that moved to worship it.
That being said I don't think all Christians or Theists are believers in a made up story.
I think it's quite possible Theists & Atheists both share a similar approach in their belief system.

Some Atheists became atheists because of a lack of empirical evidence in their lives whilst others just don't see the need for a God. There are many reasons for not being a Theist and not always due to a lack of empirical evidence I think.

Here are some questions for Atheists & Theists:
If YOU have found Empirical Evidence for the existence of God would you then believe?
What is Empircal Evidence?
Here is the wiki definition:
"Empirical evidence, also known as sense experience, is a collective term for the knowledge or source of knowledge acquired by means of the senses, particularly by observation and experimentation."
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Empirical_evidence

What do you think "sense experience" or "means of the senses" is?
Is it not the same as personal experience?
Should an atheist believe the Pyramids of Egypt exist if they have never had any empirical evidence of the Pyramids?
Should a theist believe God exists if they have never had any empirical evidence of God's existence?
Look at the definition of empirical evidence again before you reply.
Do you think a large percentage of the population or literarature or other forms of communication telling you that pyramids exist is reason enough to believe in the Pyramids?
Do you think a large percentage of the population or literarature or other forms of communication telling you that God exists is reason enough to believe in God's existence?
Do you think most of the people telling you pyramids exists, personally experienced it's existence?
Does it really take much more than popular belief for you to believe something exists?
Is popular belief a form of empirical evidence?
Look at the definition again before you reply.

If every time you ordered a pizza, it was delivered, would you doubt that the pizza shop existed?
If it wasn't always delivered would would you be justifid to stop believing it existed?
If every time you prayed to a God the results were in your favor, would you doubt God's existence?
If it wasn't always in your favor would would you be justified to doubt God's existence?
Is this not a form of empirical evidence?

Do you think popular belief counts as empirical evidence instead of personal experience?
Look at the definition of empirical evidence again before you reply
Is there anything you believe in that you haven't personally experienced?
Is empirical evidence really that important for you to accept the possibility that something exists?
If belief in the Pyramids is justified regardless of empirical evidence directly in your life then why can't belief in God also be justified as well?

Who here is willing to argue that believing in empirical evidence gathered by someone other than yourself is not a belief in the unseen?
Do we not do this all the time or do you possess omniscience?
Is such a belief rational?
Is such a belief to be classed as a fairy tail?

If I said all Atheists and Theists that believe in the unseen are fairy tail believers would you feel offended?

For the umpteenth time, atheism is not a belief system. Drinking Beverage
And for the umpteenth time
Who said it was a belief system?
Are you saying atheists are incapable of having a belief in anything?
Do you speak on behalf of all Atheists?

Do you believe the Pyramids of Egypt exist regardless of any empirical evidence? Is that not a belief in the unseen?
I believe in many things, but God is not one of them.
I am an Agnostic Atheist as far as God is concerned but I prefer the term skeptic since I don't think I should limit my world view to just God related beliefs.
I don't know if my beliefs are absolutely true & it doesn't bother me that much.
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20-03-2016, 06:37 PM
RE: Question for atheists...
Double post
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20-03-2016, 06:38 PM
RE: Question for atheists...
(20-03-2016 06:11 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(20-03-2016 10:08 AM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  Sure, change on a micro-level...if every living organism on this planet disappeared EXCEPT dogs....a billion years later, there will be many different varieties of dogs over those billion years..but they will all be DOGS...they will all be the same "kind" of animal, no matter how much time passes.

No geneticist or SPECIALIST in science recognizes the bullshit of "kind".
Your ignorance is astounding.

This term "Kind" was first termed by that idiot creationist and convicted tax felon, Kent Hovind. He used the term when trying to convince people at one of his seminars of the truth of the biblical account of Noah and the flood.

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20-03-2016, 06:45 PM
RE: Question for atheists...
(20-03-2016 06:29 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  Do you believe the Pyramids of Egypt exist regardless of any empirical evidence?


You question is meaningless. There IS empirical evidence they exist.
(I've also seen them).
You really don't read the replies to your stuff, do you ?

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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20-03-2016, 06:56 PM (This post was last modified: 20-03-2016 07:08 PM by Agnostic Shane.)
RE: Question for atheists...
(20-03-2016 06:45 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(20-03-2016 06:29 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  Do you believe the Pyramids of Egypt exist regardless of any empirical evidence?


You question is meaningless. There IS empirical evidence they exist.
(I've also seen them).
You really don't read the replies to your stuff, do you ?
Bucky there is a disconnect between empirical evidence and non empirical evidence.
Once you have no direct perception of a thing it is not empirical evidence for you. It may be empirical evidence for someone else, but I am not arguing that.
The very definition of empirical evidence shows its subjective nature.
The person that has directly experienced the empirical evidence has a belief in the seen (by them).
The person that has not experienced the empirical evidence but still accepts that the thing exists is believing in the unseen (by them).

Do you think believing in what someone else has seen and you have not is the same as believing in the seen? Is this rational? I think it might be very rational but it's not the seeing that makes it rational, it's a lot more than that.

I don't think believing in the existence of a God is rational but not because I don't observe God.

I don't consider belief in the unseen to be irrational & if it is then it is quite possible we are all guilty of being irrational in our beliefs.

P S. I have read the replies to my question and the above point has not been objected to are argued against. I am awaiting a response to the points raise so that I may either address it or admit my failed logic.
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20-03-2016, 07:06 PM
RE: Question for atheists...
(20-03-2016 06:56 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  Bucky there is a disconnect between empirical evidence and non empirical evidence.

Please explain the above in exacting detail.

If you have any evidence to support what you have said here, kindly supply it.

Thanks.

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
Banjo.
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20-03-2016, 07:11 PM (This post was last modified: 20-03-2016 07:15 PM by Agnostic Shane.)
RE: Question for atheists...
(20-03-2016 07:06 PM)Banjo Wrote:  
(20-03-2016 06:56 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  Bucky there is a disconnect between empirical evidence and non empirical evidence.

Please explain the above in exacting detail.

If you have any evidence to support what you have said here, kindly supply it.

Thanks.
Non empirical evidence
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/nonempirical
Faith based

Empirical evidence
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/empirical
Sense based

They are antonyms for each other
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20-03-2016, 09:45 PM
RE: Question for atheists...
(19-03-2016 08:36 PM)natachan Wrote:  I would disagree. The key doctrine of Christianity is the sacrificial death of Jesus in atonement for sin. The resurrection is not necessary, it was only proof of his divinity.

The fact that Jesus could even be used as an atonement for sin was proof of his divinity, because who but God could come on earth and live a perfectly sinless life?

The Resurrection may not have been necessary for the salvation of man per se, but it was necessary for the disciples to come to believe that without a shadow of a doubt, that Jesus was who he said he was, and he did what he said he would do.

(19-03-2016 08:36 PM)natachan Wrote:  There are some people who identify as christian who don't believe that he rose from the dead.

Then they cannot be taken seriously, because the New Testament is practically unanimous on this issue...so how someone can identify as a Christian and not believe in the Resurrection is mind boggling.

Now, I know of some folks that may believe that Jesus spiritually rose as opposed to physically rising, but they too are in error.

But to identify as a Christian and yet not believe in ANY Resurrection is to have to take an erroneous stance on a universal position.

(19-03-2016 08:36 PM)natachan Wrote:  Is it possible that there was a charismatic preacher around the first century who taught about universal brotherhood and was crucified for radical views? Oh absolutely.

Not only is it possible, but it is a historical fact.

(19-03-2016 08:36 PM)natachan Wrote:  But this is an incredibly vague belief. Some Christians pile on a bunch of other things to go along with it, but the core of it is very vague.

Vague like what?

(19-03-2016 08:36 PM)natachan Wrote:  Theism and intelligence are not directly related. It is a position on one issue, and that is it. Again, I would like to use the example of my mother, because she is freaking brilliant. She is a lawyer, specializing in constitutional law. She graduated SCL from her college, and has an IQ of somewhere in the neighborhood of 140. She is scary smart sometimes. She is also a dedicated Catholic. Do I think her theism has any bearing on her intelligence? No. Do I think that her religious views are wrong? Yes. Do I think she holds them for bad reasons? Yes. Does this in any way diminish how incredible she is? No.

Word. Just like how some scientists, while they may be scientifically BRILLIANT...a lot of them suffer from serious philosophical flaws in their thinking at times.

(19-03-2016 08:36 PM)natachan Wrote:  I thought of answering this with the next part of your post, because they are so closely related, but figured I would give it an answer of it's own. I've spoken with some of the preachers that come to my campus and my experience with them has been very much of the line that they are guilty of wishful thinking. Whether or not there is a god, this would still hold true. They want there to be a god because they want the universe to be small and intimate and to care about them. They want to avoid their own death. They want the universe to be just.

Now if there is a god, then hey, they got what they wanted, yay! But that doesn't mean that they aren't hoping and wishing right now. And there's nothing wrong with that per se, so long as it doesn't negatively impact the rest of your life.

Well, if they have good solid reasons why they believe in God, then I wouldn't call that wishful thinking, would you? I mean sure, blind faith may be wishful thinking...but we are well past blind faith right now.

(19-03-2016 08:36 PM)natachan Wrote:  Faith in this sense is philosophically unsound, not Christianity in particular (although that has some doctrines which are but that's another matter). Keep in mind that I said "most" here, that is coming from mainline faiths. Most Christians are empiricists or pragmatists in their day to day lives, but they make a special exception for their faith. They accept the universe that they see around them, as they are presented with it. They reject most forms of supernaturalism, requiring hard evidence for what they believe in. But in this one place they refuse to accept the implications of that framework. And that's a problem.

So, special pleading?
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20-03-2016, 09:54 PM
RE: Question for atheists...
(20-03-2016 06:38 PM)god has no twitter account Wrote:  This term "Kind" was first termed by that idiot creationist and convicted tax felon, Kent Hovind. He used the term when trying to convince people at one of his seminars of the truth of the biblical account of Noah and the flood.

Actually, the term "kind" was first termed (in this context) in the BIBLE.

Genesis 1:20-21 And God said, “Let the water teem with living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth across the vault of the sky.” 21 So God created the great creatures of the sea and every living thing with which the water teems and that moves about in it, according to their kinds, and every winged bird according to its kind.

Genesis 1:24-25 And God said, “Let the land produce living creatures according to their kinds: the livestock, the creatures that move along the ground, and the wild animals, each according to its kind.” And it was so. 25 God made the wild animals according to their kinds, the livestock according to their kinds, and all the creatures that move along the ground according to their kinds.

So, "He (Kent Hovind) used this term to remind people that the Bible just HAPPENS to be in line with what man has always observed, and that is that animals will only produce what they are, not what they aren't (contrary to the theory of evolution). We only see animals produce offspring of their own "kinds", just like the Bible said that they did back then, and just like they continue to do now, even to this day".
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