Question for atheists...
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19-03-2016, 04:29 PM
RE: Question for atheists...
Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  Belief in theism is ludicrous, but belief that a mindless and blind process (nature) created life, language, consciousness, etc...belief that a mindless and blind process created those things...that is rational belief? Laugh out load

You really shouldn't throw stones, sir.

You should visit the "I don't know" thread. The OP will explain it for you.

But now I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth.

~ Umberto Eco
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19-03-2016, 04:36 PM
RE: Question for atheists...
(19-03-2016 02:34 PM)unfogged Wrote:  Which is a core part of the problem. You are unable to consider things from a different viewpoint and that severely limits your ability to understand anything that doesn't fit your preconceptions.

Actually, that isn't part of the core problem..if there is a "problem" it is the fact that we are faced with only two options...either God did it, or nature did it.

I just CANNOT lose credibility as a rational, common sense human being...and believe that a mindless, blind process known as nature can be the ultimate source of intelligent human life on this earth, or that such a process can be the ultimate source of a universe that began to exist...or consciousness that began to exist inside of a brain that ALSO began to exist.

I just cannot believe that. It is far rational to believe that "In the beginning, the magician pulled a rabbit out of a hat" than it is to believe "In the beginning, a rabbit popped into being, uncaused, out of nothing".

Now, I understand that whatever happened during those "beginnings" was far beyond our understanding...but since we only have two options, I am going to go with the option that doesn't defy logical reasoning...plus I have arguments I can give that SUPPORT my belief...and there is NO arguments that support the other side of things.

So that being said, no, I cannot give up my theistic beliefs and therefore subject myself to the absurdity of naturalism.

(19-03-2016 02:34 PM)unfogged Wrote:  Most people grow out of Santa Claus and the Tooth Fairy when they start learning how to think critically. The problem is that many don't seem to apply those skills to their god beliefs. An adult believing in a god looks to me to be very much like a child believing in Santa.

Word. Ok.

(19-03-2016 02:34 PM)unfogged Wrote:  I don't think that rational human adult could still believe in a god; at least not without compartmentalizing rational though separate from religious thought. Some people are very good at that.

Dude, it goes back to the point I just made. How is it rational to believe that a mindless and blind process known as "nature" could create eyes when it could not see itself? You can't even create fully functional eyes from scratch, WITH your own vision and intelligence. Yet you believe that a process that didn't know what it was doing...didn't SEE what it was doing...you believe that such a process made it happen.

And this is with all due respect...but I don't see how any of you have the AUDACITY to sit there and call any belief system absurd, crazy, irrational, or whatever...without addressing the problems of your own belief system.

Its like "Oh, to say God did it is completely ridiculous"....."but nature, oh man, nature, nature put those eyeballs in those sockets...nature put those intestines in those belly's...nature put that blood in those veins" etc.

I mean, the audacity No
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19-03-2016, 04:39 PM
RE: Question for atheists...
Quote:Is that how you atheists view Christians? Do you really believe that our belief in God is similar to belief in Santa Claus..or is that just something you say to be facetious??

It's similar in the sense that Santa Claus is someone who magically gives you gifts, and God is also someone who supposedly magically gives you gifts, through the act of prayer.

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19-03-2016, 04:42 PM
RE: Question for atheists...
(19-03-2016 03:36 PM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  
(19-03-2016 10:03 AM)LostLocke Wrote:  For me, the whole "I don't believe in God like I don't believe in Santa Claus." is not about about the 'silliness factor', but about the evidence. No matter how silly something might seem, if it's real it's real. And conversely, no matter how logical something might seem, if it's not real it's not real.
I don't not believe in Santa because he seems silly, I don't believe in Santa because there's insufficient evidence for him. Same goes for Jehovah.

Well, in that case there is insufficient evidence for naturalism, too....yet that doesn't stop most of you from believing in naturalism. There isn't one shred of evidence for naturalism, yet some atheists are willing to throw all of their eggs in that basket. But when it comes to theism, suddenly it becomes "I can't believe in that because I see no evidence"....and that is NOT to say that there ISN'T evidence for theism, as I've spent the past 15-16 years of my life defending my faith...precisely because I believe that there IS evidence for Christian theism.

No one said anything about "natuarlism" until YOU brought it up.
So .... you're not really asking a question (liar). You just came, to yet again, shove you shit down the throats who don't buy your snake-oil. We know non-belief is not something you are capable of. We're sorry you can't imagine giving up your crutch.
You need your crutch. That's nice.

We don't.
The end.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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19-03-2016, 04:44 PM
RE: Question for atheists...
(19-03-2016 03:10 PM)evenheathen Wrote:  You nailed it right there. That's what we mean when we talk about rational thinking and getting beyond cognitive dissonance. The ability to remove yourself from your own biases is crucial to truly understanding how the world really works. If you can't do it, you'll never understand.

If you only have a hammer, everything looks like a nail... Likewise if you are only able to view the world with your god glasses on, you'll never appreciate the world as it really is. The day I chose to honestly wipe my ideological slate clean and decide for myself what is true and what isn't is the day my eyes really opened and I was able to let those superstitions go.

You should try it. The life you save just might be your own.

You only look at things through the lens of your own personal worldview, don't you? The complexity of DNA; is it even possible for you to consider intelligent design. All of that specified information on a molecular level. The information, the coding that is related to DNA. Will you even consider intelligent design as a possibility? Or will you continue to try and use natural law to explain the origins of coded information??

We all have biases, and I just explained to unfogged the reasons why I can only look at things through the lens of Christian theism...and the main reason is because I have a reason to believe in Christianity, and even more reasons to believe in theism (in general).
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19-03-2016, 04:44 PM
RE: Question for atheists...
(19-03-2016 04:01 PM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  
(19-03-2016 11:41 AM)Heatheness Wrote:  Is just rude and trollish. There is no belief line. Like your gods, it is imaginary.

Please provide proof or to a lesser extent EVIDENCE that "gods are imaginary". Because I can play that game, too. I can say "to say that God doesn't exist is to use one's imagination".

Then what?

Hopefully, you and your shit will get lost. Once and for all.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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19-03-2016, 04:46 PM
RE: Question for atheists...
(19-03-2016 04:44 PM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  The complexity of DNA

Which according to you was magically poofed into existence instantly, through an entirely unknown process. How does that count as an explanation?

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19-03-2016, 04:48 PM
RE: Question for atheists...
(19-03-2016 04:44 PM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  You only look at things through the lens of your own personal worldview, don't you? The complexity of DNA; is it even possible for you to consider intelligent design. All of that specified information on a molecular level. The information, the coding that is related to DNA. Will you even consider intelligent design as a possibility? Or will you continue to try and use natural law to explain the origins of coded information??

Why not ? YOU yourself said that's all you can do.

DNA is piss-poor designed. Since you know NOTHING about Genetics, I won't even waste any time telling you why DNA is piss-poor designing. (It's one of the reasons innocent children get cancer.) You have already demonstrated over and over, you don't have the background to even begin this discussion.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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19-03-2016, 04:52 PM
RE: Question for atheists...
(19-03-2016 09:51 AM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  Greetings all,

My question is; Do you really believe that the Christian's belief in God is synonymous to believing in Santa Claus or the Tooth Fairy?? Because to me, if there was an adult that seriously and earnestly believed in Santa Claus/Tooth Fairy, I would probably think that something is wrong with him/her. I would think "I don't understand how rational human being (adult) could ever believe in such a thing".

Is that how you atheists view Christians? Do you really believe that our belief in God is similar to belief in Santa Claus..or is that just something you say to be facetious??

I don't think anyone would believe in anything if they don't get something out of believing it, its like a woman who stays married to her abusive cheating husband because deep down she think he really loves her and love is a very powerful emotion.

First of all there are adults who believe in Santa and will boil it down to "Santa is a feeling of giving and love for all fellow humans" or something similar, that good feeling drives the belief just like Christians want to believe their God/Jesus loves them very much it will deepen the indoctrination. Even if they are terrible and have committed crimes, or especially if that is the case. If you can't love yourself or forgive yourself, well no worries, God forgives you and loves you.

Love is important but so is fear. Living beings fear death, we are hard wired to continue living and survive. If we believe there really is no death and we can live forever that good feeling of living forever is powerful enough to make someone believe pretty much anything. They will completely disregard their fellow humans and do/say terrible things because they truly want to believe they can live for an eternity in a paradise and isn't that what really matters? If there is no such thing you just wasted all the years you had on Earth fixating on a fantasy of what will be later and you never truly lived.

So as much as I do think believing the Tooth Fairy is pretty much the same as believing in Jesus it really isn't. Believing in the Tooth Fairy won't make you feel loved when you feel all alone or give you peace and calm with the fear of death creeps into your mind. It will take strength to embrace the truth even if it burns you, but I do believe the truth is there is no God just like there is no Tooth Fairy.

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19-03-2016, 04:54 PM
RE: Question for atheists...
At work.

And all we see is Call ranting about their incredulity. Placing post after post about things which have time and time again been explained and offered links too and discussed for all we get in reply is,

"I don't believe it (And constantly show no signs of even trying) therefore is dumb."

Call_of_the_Wild has even posted that they would (One light even say 'Must') only believe that all the beginnings are as of a magical rabbit appearing out of a magical hat.

Then, at no time, can Call_of_the_Wild give good reasons for why their magic is better than some one else's magic.

Other than Call saying their magic is better than some one else's magic.
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