Question for atheists...
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19-03-2016, 05:25 PM
RE: Question for atheists...
(19-03-2016 04:04 PM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  
(19-03-2016 01:18 PM)true scotsman Wrote:  honestly, no, I don't view them as idiots. I see them as victims of horrible, mind destroying poison.

Wuz up scots...can you explain why you view Christian theists as victims of horrible, mind destroying poison?
Because it reduces to metaphysical subjectivism which is incompatible with reason.

Do not lose your knowledge that man's proper estate is an upright posture, an intransigent mind and a step that travels unlimited roads. - Ayn Rand.

Don't sacrifice for me, live for yourself! - Me

The only alternative to Objectivism is some form of Subjectivism. - Dawson Bethrick
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19-03-2016, 05:27 PM
RE: Question for atheists...
(19-03-2016 05:21 PM)DerFish Wrote:  Who invented that line? The political right- left line is something real and previously defined. It is not yours to make up a new definition for it.

Dude, this is just a makeshift line in regards to the question that I asked. I explained what the line is, and why I am using it...and I said it without giving a damn about any political ties that any "right/left" wing nonsense that is usually attached to it. No need to over-analyze anything. Just take it for what it is, and in the context that it is in.
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19-03-2016, 05:28 PM
RE: Question for atheists...
At work.

Actually, DerFish, I think you'll find Master Call_of_the_Wild is quite adept at making up lots of stuff.........
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19-03-2016, 05:28 PM
RE: Question for atheists...
(19-03-2016 05:25 PM)true scotsman Wrote:  Because it reduces to metaphysical subjectivism which is incompatible with reason.

What is metaphysical subjectivism?
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19-03-2016, 05:28 PM
RE: Question for atheists...
(19-03-2016 04:44 PM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  
(19-03-2016 03:10 PM)evenheathen Wrote:  You nailed it right there. That's what we mean when we talk about rational thinking and getting beyond cognitive dissonance. The ability to remove yourself from your own biases is crucial to truly understanding how the world really works. If you can't do it, you'll never understand.

If you only have a hammer, everything looks like a nail... Likewise if you are only able to view the world with your god glasses on, you'll never appreciate the world as it really is. The day I chose to honestly wipe my ideological slate clean and decide for myself what is true and what isn't is the day my eyes really opened and I was able to let those superstitions go.

You should try it. The life you save just might be your own.

You only look at things through the lens of your own personal worldview, don't you? The complexity of DNA; is it even possible for you to consider intelligent design. All of that specified information on a molecular level. The information, the coding that is related to DNA. Will you even consider intelligent design as a possibility? Or will you continue to try and use natural law to explain the origins of coded information??

We all have biases, and I just explained to unfogged the reasons why I can only look at things through the lens of Christian theism...and the main reason is because I have a reason to believe in Christianity, and even more reasons to believe in theism (in general).

The biggest flaw in intelligent design is you are looking at it backwards. You see something complex and think, how could this come to be without a plan? If you look at it correctly you will see that this planet did create us and we are bound do it, we can't live on any other planet right? I mean if God wanted us to live in this universe he certainly made it difficult for us to ever live or hope to survive anywhere else. We are genetically associated with all other living beings, we even share DNA with plants.

The theory of evolution with it's laws simply state that with enough time any simple living thing can and will become more and more complex and adapted to it's environment, it's not difficult to understand we are the product of billions of years of gradual change, we didn't just appear out of nowhere fully formed and "designed".

We are certainly not that intelligently designed anyway, what designer would use one tube in the body for breathing and eating/drinking? Thousands of people die every year from choking, not very smart and that's only one of literally millions of examples of the poor design of not only our bodies but the entire planet, I mean seriously it's mostly water which we can't live in and we can't drink , you would think any creator put us here just to kill us.

All the ingredients we need to be made on this planet exist, there is literally nothing about us that is so magical and special that only a metaphysical being could've made us. Are humans not "natural"? We most certainly are and even if there are some mysteries about the nature of life simply stating "God did it." isn't an answer, you may as well say "A wizard did it." A wizard is an intelligent being, has magical powers so yeah I guess that would make perfect sense except humans have yet to discover any mystical or magical phenomena that can't be explained in natural terms so there is literally no reason to just assume a divine being had anything to do with our creation and if they had they did a poor job of it.

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19-03-2016, 05:33 PM
RE: Question for atheists...
(19-03-2016 04:36 PM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  
(19-03-2016 02:34 PM)unfogged Wrote:  Which is a core part of the problem. You are unable to consider things from a different viewpoint and that severely limits your ability to understand anything that doesn't fit your preconceptions.

Actually, that isn't part of the core problem..if there is a "problem" it is the fact that we are faced with only two options...either God did it, or nature did it.

I just CANNOT lose credibility as a rational, common sense human being...and believe that a mindless, blind process known as nature can be the ultimate source of intelligent human life on this earth, or that such a process can be the ultimate source of a universe that began to exist...or consciousness that began to exist inside of a brain that ALSO began to exist.

I just cannot believe that. It is far rational to believe that "In the beginning, the magician pulled a rabbit out of a hat" than it is to believe "In the beginning, a rabbit popped into being, uncaused, out of nothing".

Now, I understand that whatever happened during those "beginnings" was far beyond our understanding...but since we only have two options, I am going to go with the option that doesn't defy logical reasoning...plus I have arguments I can give that SUPPORT my belief...and there is NO arguments that support the other side of things.

So that being said, no, I cannot give up my theistic beliefs and therefore subject myself to the absurdity of naturalism.

(19-03-2016 02:34 PM)unfogged Wrote:  Most people grow out of Santa Claus and the Tooth Fairy when they start learning how to think critically. The problem is that many don't seem to apply those skills to their god beliefs. An adult believing in a god looks to me to be very much like a child believing in Santa.

Word. Ok.

(19-03-2016 02:34 PM)unfogged Wrote:  I don't think that rational human adult could still believe in a god; at least not without compartmentalizing rational though separate from religious thought. Some people are very good at that.

Dude, it goes back to the point I just made. How is it rational to believe that a mindless and blind process known as "nature" could create eyes when it could not see itself? You can't even create fully functional eyes from scratch, WITH your own vision and intelligence. Yet you believe that a process that didn't know what it was doing...didn't SEE what it was doing...you believe that such a process made it happen.

And this is with all due respect...but I don't see how any of you have the AUDACITY to sit there and call any belief system absurd, crazy, irrational, or whatever...without addressing the problems of your own belief system.

Its like "Oh, to say God did it is completely ridiculous"....."but nature, oh man, nature, nature put those eyeballs in those sockets...nature put those intestines in those belly's...nature put that blood in those veins" etc.

I mean, the audacity No
I don't know how to do the multiple quote thing, so will do it this way: You say there are only two options Nature or Jesus. There are more people who believe in other Gods than there are people who believe in Jesus. Many other Gods are a lot more believable than Jesus. Think about drinking the blood of your God, doesn't the idea of it make you sick to your stomach if you are sane? And nibbling on bits of His body, it looks like a cracker and tastes like a cracker, but is really the body of my God! Down the hatch! One day maybe I can get a piece of His body that doesn't look and taste like a saltine cracker, but meanwhile I'll believe that this cracker tasting thing is the body of my God which He for some reason wants me to eat! Thor doesn't ask that someone believe that sort of stupidness!
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19-03-2016, 05:36 PM
RE: Question for atheists...
(19-03-2016 05:28 PM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  
(19-03-2016 05:25 PM)true scotsman Wrote:  Because it reduces to metaphysical subjectivism which is incompatible with reason.

What is metaphysical subjectivism?
I've explained it to you several times in detail. It's philosophy 101 stuff. Your supposed to have a infallible all knowing mind on your side and you don't know the most basic of issues pertaining to your worldview?

Do not lose your knowledge that man's proper estate is an upright posture, an intransigent mind and a step that travels unlimited roads. - Ayn Rand.

Don't sacrifice for me, live for yourself! - Me

The only alternative to Objectivism is some form of Subjectivism. - Dawson Bethrick
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19-03-2016, 05:39 PM
RE: Question for atheists...
(19-03-2016 05:27 PM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  
(19-03-2016 05:21 PM)DerFish Wrote:  Who invented that line? The political right- left line is something real and previously defined. It is not yours to make up a new definition for it.

Dude, this is just a makeshift line in regards to the question that I asked. I explained what the line is, and why I am using it...and I said it without giving a damn about any political ties that any "right/left" wing nonsense that is usually attached to it. No need to over-analyze anything. Just take it for what it is, and in the context that it is in.

That is the biggest problem in Christianity as far as I am concerned. We call it going to MSU or Makes Stuff up University. Words have meanings, they are not left for you to invent meanings for them as you choose. Right left is a political thing. Ayn Rand was as far right as one can get and she was an atheist even though some present day Christians seem to think she was married to Jesus or something. But as you say you don't give a damn about the meaning of a word before using it. That is the core of Christianity.
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19-03-2016, 05:41 PM
RE: Question for atheists...
(19-03-2016 05:28 PM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  
(19-03-2016 05:25 PM)true scotsman Wrote:  Because it reduces to metaphysical subjectivism which is incompatible with reason.

What is metaphysical subjectivism?
I've explained it to you several times in detail. It's philosophy 101 stuff. You're supposed to have a infallible all knowing mind on your side and you don't know the most basic of issues pertaining to your worldview?

Do not lose your knowledge that man's proper estate is an upright posture, an intransigent mind and a step that travels unlimited roads. - Ayn Rand.

Don't sacrifice for me, live for yourself! - Me

The only alternative to Objectivism is some form of Subjectivism. - Dawson Bethrick
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19-03-2016, 06:05 PM
RE: Question for atheists...
(19-03-2016 04:01 PM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  
(19-03-2016 11:41 AM)Heatheness Wrote:  Is just rude and trollish. There is no belief line. Like your gods, it is imaginary.

Please provide proof or to a lesser extent EVIDENCE that "gods are imaginary". Because I can play that game, too. I can say "to say that God doesn't exist is to use one's imagination".

Then what?

Heatheness,

This is not an honest request because a while back I asked him directly if there was a way we could distinguish what he calls God from something he is merely imagining and his answer was that we probably can't. He is not really interested in your answer, he's here twerking for his God.

Do not lose your knowledge that man's proper estate is an upright posture, an intransigent mind and a step that travels unlimited roads. - Ayn Rand.

Don't sacrifice for me, live for yourself! - Me

The only alternative to Objectivism is some form of Subjectivism. - Dawson Bethrick
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