Question for theists: What would make you change your faith?
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19-01-2013, 06:11 PM
Question for theists: What would make you change your faith?
I just read Egor's explanations for why Veridicanism is the next step for Christians. It has a lot of "personal revelation" in it. So theists, is that enough for you? What would make you change the way you view and worship your god? Or do you feel your own path is the correct one?

Aaaaaand go!

...it would rather be a man... [who] plunges into scientific questions with which he has no real acquaintance, only to obscure them with aimless rhetoric, and distract the attention of his hearers from the real point at issue by eloquent digressions and skilled appeals to religious prejudice.
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23-01-2013, 01:49 AM (This post was last modified: 23-01-2013 01:55 AM by kpax.)
RE: Question for theists: What would make you change your faith?
Maybe slighly off topic but I had to google "Veridicanism" and got this...wtf?! What happened since I've been gone?

http://veridicanism.com

And more wtf?? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veridicanism

Is this the same guy, Egor, who posts here??

Quote:According to Edward Gordon:

“We hate atheism because we love the human being who is tormented by atheism. We are committed to fighting the atheistic influence in society, and see it as a detriment to the psychological functioning of human beings, to society as a whole, and to future generations influenced by it.”

Indeed, most of the efforts of Veridicans today are directed at challenging atheistic beliefs through online discussions, debate, and through sermons offered on a weekly basis through the Church of the Veridican.
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23-01-2013, 02:02 AM
RE: Question for theists: What would make you change your faith?
(19-01-2013 06:11 PM)guitar_nut Wrote:  I just read Egor's explanations for why Veridicanism is the next step for Christians. It has a lot of "personal revelation" in it. So theists, is that enough for you? What would make you change the way you view and worship your god? Or do you feel your own path is the correct one?

Aaaaaand go!

I think theists, or anyone really, see 'their' path as the correct one because we have evolved to see patterns to affirm our thoughts, even if those patterns have been made up. We constantly search for evidence and connect dots that don't exist. Personal revelation would strongly support many dots. Big Grin



(23-01-2013 01:49 AM)kpax Wrote:  Maybe slighly off topic but I had to google "Veridicanism" and got this...wtf?! What happened since I've been gone?

http://veridicanism.com

And more wtf?? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veridicanism

Is this the same guy, Egor, who posts here??

Quote:According to Edward Gordon:

“We hate atheism because we love the human being who is tormented by atheism. We are committed to fighting the atheistic influence in society, and see it as a detriment to the psychological functioning of human beings, to society as a whole, and to future generations influenced by it.”

Indeed, most of the efforts of Veridicans today are directed at challenging atheistic beliefs through online discussions, debate, and through sermons offered on a weekly basis through the Church of the Veridican.

Ha ha, yes it is! I especially love the bottom bit about the online forum and the details on membership for leadership openings.
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23-01-2013, 02:20 AM
RE: Question for theists: What would make you change your faith?
(23-01-2013 02:02 AM)LadyJane Wrote:  Ha ha, yes it is! I especially love the bottom bit about the online forum and the details on membership for leadership openings.
He is seriously creeping me out. Why does anyone feel it's their duty to convert everyone to what they believe? This is a freakin atheist forum for crying out loud! Why do some people feel that it's their entitled duty to tell others how the world really works? I don't get it.

"Indeed, most of the efforts of Veridicans today are directed at
challenging atheistic beliefs through online discussions, debate, and
through sermons offered on a weekly basis through the Church of the
Veridican."

Yeah, cause God will take care of feeding the hungry, protecting the vulnerable, stopping the wars, finding weapons of mass description, homing the homeless, writing prescriptions for the sick... nothing left for Veridicans to worry about beside those horrible atheistic beliefs that drains society's psychological functioning.

Smokin
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23-01-2013, 08:46 AM
RE: Question for theists: What would make you change your faith?
Agreed. I came here to be able to discuss atheism freely without worrying about getting browbeaten and told I'm hell bound by theists. If I want, the Southern Baptists around me are glad to do it. I thought this was the one place I could go without fear or hassle of conversion attempts or people trying to generally tell me I'm wrong in my unbelief. I don't go to theist or Christian boards to try to deconvert them.

Predictably The Church of Egor isn't gaining any traction here because he is illogical and presents nothing new, but I do have to wonder why he is allowed to continue here and be condescending to us. Perhaps he is allowed to remain here for sheer entertainment value. That's the only reason I can see.

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23-01-2013, 08:53 AM
RE: Question for theists: What would make you change your faith?
(23-01-2013 08:46 AM)cjs Wrote:  Agreed. I came here to be able to discuss atheism freely without worrying about getting browbeaten and told I'm hell bound by theists. If I want, the Southern Baptists around me are glad to do it. I thought this was the one place I could go without fear or hassle of conversion attempts or people trying to generally tell me I'm wrong in my unbelief. I don't go to theist or Christian boards to try to deconvert them.

Predictably The Church of Egor isn't gaining any traction here because he is illogical and presents nothing new, but I do have to wonder why he is allowed to continue here and be condescending to us. Perhaps he is allowed to remain here for sheer entertainment value. That's the only reason I can see.


It is about freedom of speech and entertainment value. The forum is open to all.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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23-01-2013, 08:54 AM
RE: Question for theists: What would make you change your faith?
Wikipedia seems to be on the verge of deleting it too. How bad does your shit have to be for wikipedia to delete it?


To the OP's question however, I have been asked by a theist before "what would make me believe?" Your question is along the same vein and is really difficult to answer. My response to the above question is unequivocal physical evidence that logically and verifiably leads to the assertion of a god. Or more simply put, god appears in the sky to everyone at once and says "Hey! It's me. The real and one true religion is BLANK and the correct book is BLANK and my one true prophet is BLANK." But theists assert that my answer is unreasonable (they make an assumption that while the lord may "work in mysterious ways" and that "we can never truly know him", they somehow do know how he works and that my request can't, or won't, happen).

For the same reason, no answer any theist gives you will probably ever seem reasonable or logical or draw a connection between the premise and conclusion.

Evolve
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23-01-2013, 09:12 AM
RE: Question for theists: What would make you change your faith?
(23-01-2013 08:46 AM)cjs Wrote:  Agreed. I came here to be able to discuss atheism freely without worrying about getting browbeaten and told I'm hell bound by theists. If I want, the Southern Baptists around me are glad to do it. I thought this was the one place I could go without fear or hassle of conversion attempts or people trying to generally tell me I'm wrong in my unbelief. I don't go to theist or Christian boards to try to deconvert them.

Predictably The Church of Egor isn't gaining any traction here because he is illogical and presents nothing new, but I do have to wonder why he is allowed to continue here and be condescending to us. Perhaps he is allowed to remain here for sheer entertainment value. That's the only reason I can see.
Honestly, if our freedom of speech policy isn't kosher with you, this forum might not be the place for you.

I understand the thought process of wanting to "get away" from theists, but there is hardly a problem with being attacked by theists here... sure, we have drive-bys, occasional theists, a few YECs, Egor, and me, but that's about it.

The forum holds free speech as paramount. That's just our policy and it's always been our policy.

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23-01-2013, 09:33 AM
RE: Question for theists: What would make you change your faith?
KC I have no problem with free speech as such. I do have an issue when I get called out for supposedly being disrespectful to theists or speaking my mind when others are allowed to be rude, vulgar, and coarse (I've seen some hairy threads with insults and the f bomb and harsh insults dropped and flung at others) with impunity.

If I'm I be called out every time I question something I believe to be worthy of a question, then suddenly I'm told that maybe this forum isn't the place for me, which is a diplomatic way to tell me to buzz off. This means that we have free speech for everyone here but that mine isn't quite as free as that of some others.

Y'all are the mods and can keep Egor here. Whatever. He's allowed to disrespect many people not just me. But let me question a theist, and it's Katy bar the door.

Free speech is kosher with me. But you calling me to the principal's office when I exercise mine, yeah that's when I start having a problem.

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23-01-2013, 09:38 AM
RE: Question for theists: What would make you change your faith?
(23-01-2013 09:33 AM)cjs Wrote:  KC I have no problem with free speech as such. I do have an issue when I get called out for supposedly being disrespectful to theists or speaking my mind when others are allowed to be rude, vulgar, and coarse (I've seen some hairy threads with insults and the f bomb and harsh insults dropped and flung at others) with impunity.

If I'm I be called out every time I question something I believe to be worthy of a question, then suddenly I'm told that maybe this forum isn't the place for me, which is a diplomatic way to tell me to buzz off. This means that we have free speech for everyone here but that mine isn't quite as free as that of some others.

Y'all are the mods and can keep Egor here. Whatever. He's allowed to disrespect many people not just me. But let me question a theist, and it's Katy bar the door.

Free speech is kosher with me. But you calling me to the principal's office when I exercise mine, yeah that's when I start having a problem.


Who has a problem with you questioning a theist? Go ahead, question away. Many ask Egor what he's doing here, many ask kingschosen what he's doing here. Some of the questions are polite, some aren't; some of the answers are polite, some aren't.
They are all allowed.

Feel free to question - I don't see why you're getting your knickers in a twist. Consider

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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