Question for theists in the forum
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07-12-2011, 01:40 AM
RE: Question for theists in the forum
(05-12-2011 11:26 PM)Starcrash Wrote:  Just put yourself in their shoes... you feel so certain that there's a God, and yet life doesn't quite work the way it's supposed to work. You can be both atheist and successful, and you can be both religious and unlucky. It's clear, from direct observation, that "God's justice" isn't being meted out in this life.

The atheists don't tithe, they don't waste their time with prayer or bible study (well, most don't) and they don't have to hold onto faith in the face of evidence against it... and yet for all this extra effort you're putting in, you're not getting rewarded for it here. Wouldn't this idea of the atheists going to Hell make life much more livable? Wouldn't this idea of justice after death make you happy about what you've given up for your religion?

I find this an interesting correlation to the way I was taught to understand some of the more gruesome texts in the Old Testament. The Israelites were God's Chosen and the recipients of his blessings. Yet, as they looked around at their surrounding idol worshiping neighbors, the Israelites began to say things like, "Hey, why do those guys get to eat bacon while I'm left to eat candied locusts? Meh." And so the priests, psalmists, and prophets, who needed to provide social order and manipulation of the masses, produced propaganda literature that said, "Don't worry. Those Bacon Eaters will get Sodom and Gomorrahed up the wazzoo in the afterlife. So go ahead and suffer now and dream about eating baby enemies instead of bacon and quit worrying about how awesome everyone else has it."

Hm...apparently somewhere along the line in my discourse I was able to reframe what I was taught in college and seminary into my now cynical atheist perspective. Smile

It was just a fucking apple man, we're sorry okay? Please stop the madness Laugh out load
~Izel
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07-12-2011, 02:17 AM
RE: Question for theists in the forum
(07-12-2011 01:40 AM)Erxomai Wrote:  Those Bacon Eaters will get Sodom and Gomorrahed up the wazzoo in the afterlife.

Ahahahaha! So great Smile

... some people don't like to wait for the afterlife Big Grin
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07-12-2011, 02:46 AM
RE: Question for theists in the forum
(07-12-2011 02:17 AM)morondog Wrote:  ... some people don't like to wait for the afterlife Big Grin

Amen, brotha!

It was just a fucking apple man, we're sorry okay? Please stop the madness Laugh out load
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07-12-2011, 07:16 AM
RE: Question for theists in the forum
I love how Erxomai has explained all the religious laws and doctrines in less than half of a sentence. This "to provide social order and manipulation of the masses" is the core, the true reason why religions started to exist on a big scale. How do you explain to an ignorant peasant that stealing and killing is not a thing you do? You scare him with God and Gods vengeance. A great way for a state religion to help you organize people using fear.

But 2000 years later...

Sad

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07-12-2011, 07:31 AM (This post was last modified: 07-12-2011 06:07 PM by Erxomai.)
RE: Question for theists in the forum
(07-12-2011 07:16 AM)Filox Wrote:  But 2000 years later...

Sad

Goes to show how effective the tactic is. Why fix what ain't broke (if you're in the manipulation business). I don't remember right now, Filox, where your patriotic roots lie, but in the US, religion is the first tool to turn to when you want to influence the populist vote. Throw out a few threats that a vote for "the other guy" will lead to God turning his back on this great Christian nation and we'll be no better than Rome, which was not brought down by the Barbarians at the gate, but by the loose morals of the hedonist, baby-eating, Godless, Communist Left.

Pretty heady power to weild. Why reinvent the manipulation wheel?

It was just a fucking apple man, we're sorry okay? Please stop the madness Laugh out load
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07-12-2011, 05:19 PM
RE: Question for theists in the forum
(05-12-2011 08:09 PM)Seasbury Wrote:  Just curious if you have, or can provide any insights to the mindset of people like this.

From what I've read it's a a really primitive attitude. In the ancient tribes, if there was a non-believer among the villagers, that non-believer was blamed for all the bad things that the gods did to the people. Non-believers were usually either banished or executed for bringing down the wrath of the gods upon the people.

Many religidiots have much the same attitude even now and I'm sure that many Christians would love to watch atheists writhing in a lake of fire right in front of them.

"To think of what the world has suffered from superstition, from religion, from the worship of beast and stone and god, is
almost enough to make one insane."

Robert G. Ingersoll
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07-12-2011, 05:23 PM (This post was last modified: 07-12-2011 05:34 PM by kingschosen.)
RE: Question for theists in the forum
(07-12-2011 05:19 PM)Organon Wrote:  Many religidiots have much the same attitude even now and I'm sure that many Christians would love to watch atheists writhing in a lake of fire before them.

I've been around Christians my whole life, and I've never met a single one of those people you describe. Yeah, they are highly opposed to the atheistic belief, but they aren't licking their chops just waiting for an atheist to get cooked for all enternity. In fact, all the Christians I know either look on them with empathy or apathy... but never cold-blooded hate and malice.

Edit: to be clear, I'm talking about real life people; not people hiding behind the anonymity of the Internet. That mixed with everything I described earlier creates this coarse breed of Christian. I'm willing to bet those people would never act that way towards a non-believer that they met in real life.

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07-12-2011, 05:44 PM
RE: Question for theists in the forum
Have you ever rode the bus King? The bus is a really good place to find haters.

I'm not a non believer, I believe in the possibility of anything. I just don't let the actuality of something be determined by a 3rd party.
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07-12-2011, 07:05 PM
RE: Question for theists in the forum
(07-12-2011 05:23 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(07-12-2011 05:19 PM)Organon Wrote:  Many religidiots have much the same attitude even now and I'm sure that many Christians would love to watch atheists writhing in a lake of fire before them.

Edit: to be clear, I'm talking about real life people; not people hiding behind the anonymity of the Internet. That mixed with everything I described earlier creates this coarse breed of Christian. I'm willing to bet those people would never act that way towards a non-believer that they met in real life.

All I have to go by is the 'net, I'm afraid, as I've never known any Christians in real life, but I'm sure you're right!

I've been wished in hell many times on the 'net, I can assure you!

"To think of what the world has suffered from superstition, from religion, from the worship of beast and stone and god, is
almost enough to make one insane."

Robert G. Ingersoll
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07-12-2011, 07:13 PM
RE: Question for theists in the forum
(07-12-2011 07:05 PM)Organon Wrote:  All I have to go by is the 'net, I'm afraid, as I've never known any Christians in real life, but I'm sure you're right!

How interesting you should say that. I was recently reflecting on my life B.A. (Before Atheism), and realized that I didn't know any atheists back then, in real life or anywhere else for that matter. The only atheist I could name was Madalyn Murray O'Hair, and all I knew about her was she was some kook who didn't like God for some reason.

So I certainly never wished any to go to hell. And while KC's Calvinism doesn't make him wish us to go to hell, I'm thinking he wouldn't be afraid to say that we are going to hell if pressed. I certainly would have had to answer that way back in the day. But I also would have felt some responsibility to try to keep you all from going there...which by my earlier statement has no real meaning, since I didn't know any atheists on a first name basis.

It was just a fucking apple man, we're sorry okay? Please stop the madness Laugh out load
~Izel
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