Questioning The Intangible Versus Questioning the Tangible
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12-01-2017, 08:50 AM
RE: Questioning The Intangible Versus Questioning the Tangible
(11-01-2017 10:14 PM)WhiskeyDebates Wrote:  There are several threads I can think of off the top of my head where people who disagree with the popular views on this forum do not get mocked, belittled, insulted, and ganged up on at every turn.
Not that I don't believe you, but care to post some examples?

(11-01-2017 10:14 PM)WhiskeyDebates Wrote:  People aren't getting mocked because they don't jive with the popular opinion, they get mocked cause their alternative to that opinion is demonstrably fucking stupid. If the popular opinion is that the world is round and you say it's a chocolate frickin' eclair then fella you are gonna get mocked and rightly so. Ridiculous opinions should be subjected to ridicule, propriety and manners be damned.
This sounds a lot like what morondog said earlier, so I have to ask: Are you saying that every opinion that deviates from the popular one around here is "demonstrably fucking stupid" or "ridiculous" or are you saying that people only attack, mock or ridicule opinions that exhibit those characteristics?

(11-01-2017 10:14 PM)WhiskeyDebates Wrote:  The Christian girl got mocked by a lot of people because she made a point, several times, of telling us how she was a critical thinker and proceeded to give a load of examples of opinions and beliefs that were so divorced from critical thinking that it was flat out comical. If I tell everyone how awesome an architect I am but I don't know what a wall is I should expect to be made fun of.
That's not what happened. I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you simply remember the events incorrectly rather than that you're straight-up lying about them. The user in question made a polite and respectful post in the Introduction section of the forum, a place meant for welcoming new users rather than debating them, and it was at the end of that post that she said that she still thinks she's a critical thinker. This was also the one and only time she said it. Your claim that she told us that she's a critical thinker 'several times' and then proceeded to voice opinions and beliefs that exhibit a lack of critical thinking is patently false in light of those facts.

Here's a number of mocking and belittling responses that were made on the basis of her introduction post alone:

(29-12-2016 06:49 PM)Anjele Wrote:  popsthebuilder had a vision too. Perhaps we have a match here.
(29-12-2016 06:58 PM)Banjo Wrote:  No, you're not.

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(29-12-2016 02:22 PM)Stevil Wrote:  How have you applied critical thinking to your first quote above?
(29-12-2016 04:51 PM)Szuchow Wrote:  Thinking that you are critical thinker does not make you one. Especially in light of what you wrote.
(29-12-2016 05:49 PM)Minimalist Wrote:  Sounds more like a stroke. Did you see a doctor?
(29-12-2016 07:36 PM)Banjo Wrote:  PeacefulHeart.

Shithouse username as well.
(29-12-2016 11:09 PM)Banjo Wrote:  
(29-12-2016 01:25 PM)PeacefulHeart Wrote:  Hello, everyone. My name is Kathryn and I am full of shit.

We know.
(29-12-2016 11:52 PM)Rahn127 Wrote:  Hey Kathryn

I see you found a delusion to grab hold of.
After all those years of thinking critically, you had an experience in your brain and somehow the skeptical part of your brain stopped working.

You might want to see a doctor.

Do you need me to go on or are you seriously going to continue arguing that she deserved to be treated this way based on her completely civil opening post? Her last comment before leaving the forum should have evoked a modicum of self-reflection in the bullies who ganged up on her, but instead they doubled down on mocking and insulting her. All that is not even to mention how arrogant the notion that theists can't be critical thinkers is. How full of yourself does one have to be to believe that when there are numerous theists in the world who are far more educated, intelligent and accomplished than any member of this forum could ever hope to be?

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12-01-2017, 08:59 AM (This post was last modified: 12-01-2017 09:29 AM by Szuchow.)
RE: Questioning The Intangible Versus Questioning the Tangible
@Vosur

Sure, teling her that in light of what she wrote she isn't critical thinker was bullying and ganging on poor, poor her.

Also however inteligent and educated other theists may be they are irrelevant. I wrote about her.

If this: [...]Then, on my birthday of this year, something completely unexpected happened to me. I had a vision, and I saw the Light of God. I don’t say that figuratively, although I understand if you wouldn’t believe me. I saw God’s Light.[...] constitute critical thinking to you then I have nothing more to add.

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The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

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12-01-2017, 10:18 AM
RE: Questioning The Intangible Versus Questioning the Tangible
(12-01-2017 08:59 AM)Szuchow Wrote:  @Vosur

Sure, teling her that in light of what she wrote she isn't critical thinker was bullying and ganging on poor, poor her.
It is quite telling that you felt like I was talking about you when I referred to bullies who ganged up on her even though I never specified which posters I meant.

(12-01-2017 08:59 AM)Szuchow Wrote:  Also however inteligent and educated other theists may be they are irrelevant. I wrote about her.
What makes you think that I was referring to your post in the last paragraph rather than the much more obvious choice of Rahn127's post?

(12-01-2017 08:59 AM)Szuchow Wrote:  If this: [...]Then, on my birthday of this year, something completely unexpected happened to me. I had a vision, and I saw the Light of God. I don’t say that figuratively, although I understand if you wouldn’t believe me. I saw God’s Light.[...] constitute critical thinking to you then I have nothing more to add.
I don't disagree with those who say that her religious beliefs don't constitute critical thinking, I disagree with those who try to imply that religious believers are not or cannot be critical thinkers. The history of our species is filled to the brim with intelligent people whose religious beliefs didn't stop them from using critical thinking to advance our civilization through science and philosophy.

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12-01-2017, 10:21 AM
RE: Questioning The Intangible Versus Questioning the Tangible
Vosur. My reaction was born of long long experience. I knew what was going on.

Seen it too many times.

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
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12-01-2017, 10:27 AM
RE: Questioning The Intangible Versus Questioning the Tangible
(12-01-2017 10:18 AM)Vosur Wrote:  I don't disagree with those who say that her religious beliefs don't constitute critical thinking, I disagree with those who try to imply that religious believers are not or cannot be critical thinkers. The history of our species is filled to the brim with intelligent people whose religious beliefs didn't stop them from using critical thinking to advance our civilization through science and philosophy.

No one here said what you claim in this generalization.
Your negative generalizations are you doing exactly what you seem to be whining about.
Pot meet kettle.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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12-01-2017, 10:30 AM (This post was last modified: 12-01-2017 10:34 AM by Szuchow.)
RE: Questioning The Intangible Versus Questioning the Tangible
(12-01-2017 10:18 AM)Vosur Wrote:  
(12-01-2017 08:59 AM)Szuchow Wrote:  @Vosur

Sure, teling her that in light of what she wrote she isn't critical thinker was bullying and ganging on poor, poor her.
It is quite telling that you felt like I was talking about you when I referred to bullies who ganged up on her even though I never specified which posters I meant.

It might be as you say quite telling if not for the fact that you used my words as example of mocking and belittling response. I don't like baseless accusations being thrown at me.

(12-01-2017 08:59 AM)Szuchow Wrote:  Also however inteligent and educated other theists may be they are irrelevant. I wrote about her.
(12-01-2017 10:18 AM)Vosur Wrote:  What makes you think that I was referring to your post in the last paragraph rather than the much more obvious choice of Rahn127's post?

I don't see Rahn post as more obvious choice. He too didn't state that theists can't be critical thinkers.

So it appears that your mention of other potentially intelligent theist still is irrelevant.

(12-01-2017 08:59 AM)Szuchow Wrote:  If this: [...]Then, on my birthday of this year, something completely unexpected happened to me. I had a vision, and I saw the Light of God. I don’t say that figuratively, although I understand if you wouldn’t believe me. I saw God’s Light.[...] constitute critical thinking to you then I have nothing more to add.
(12-01-2017 10:18 AM)Vosur Wrote:  I don't disagree with those who say that her religious beliefs don't constitute critical thinking, I disagree with those who try to imply that religious believers are not or cannot be critical thinkers. The history of our species is filled to the brim with intelligent people whose religious beliefs didn't stop them from using critical thinking to advance our civilization through science and philosophy.

History of our species is irrelevant in this. I said Thinking that you are critical thinker does not make you one. Especially in light of what you wrote.. One must have very active imagination to think that these words imply that believers can't be critical thinkers. Active imagination is also required to think that these words are mocking and belittling.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

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12-01-2017, 01:23 PM
RE: Questioning The Intangible Versus Questioning the Tangible
Oh how far we've fallen, dear friends.

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12-01-2017, 01:29 PM
RE: Questioning The Intangible Versus Questioning the Tangible
At work.

(12-01-2017 01:23 PM)Atothetheist Wrote:  Oh how far we've fallen, dear friends.


Sadcryface

But...... I was nice.....
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12-01-2017, 01:38 PM
RE: Questioning The Intangible Versus Questioning the Tangible
(12-01-2017 10:21 AM)Banjo Wrote:  Vosur. My reaction was born of long long experience. I knew what was going on.

Seen it too many times.
What do you think was going on?

(12-01-2017 08:59 AM)Szuchow Wrote:  I don't see Rahn post as more obvious choice. He too didn't state that theists can't be critical thinkers.

So it appears that your mention of other potentially intelligent theist still is irrelevant.
I used the term "imply" for a reason. I never claimed that anyone outright said it.

(12-01-2017 10:30 AM)Szuchow Wrote:  It might be as you say quite telling if not for the fact that you used my words as example of mocking and belittling response. I don't like baseless accusations being thrown at me.
(12-01-2017 10:30 AM)Szuchow Wrote:  Active imagination is also required to think that these words are mocking and belittling.
This seems like an unproductive exchange. I don't think there's anything I can say to convince you that your own words conveyed a meaning different from the one you intended them to convey. It's difficult to be certain about the intention behind someone's words online absent contextual clues like tone of voice and body language, so if I really did misinterpret you, I apologize.

(12-01-2017 08:59 AM)Szuchow Wrote:  History of our species is irrelevant in this. I said Thinking that you are critical thinker does not make you one. Especially in light of what you wrote.. One must have very active imagination to think that these words imply that believers can't be critical thinkers.
This is the second time I have to point out that I was not referring to your post in the last paragraph. I'm not going to repeat myself a third time.

@BuckyBall: There's no point in arguing with you if you're going to arbitrarily pick and choose which of my responses to your posts you respond to.

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12-01-2017, 01:50 PM
RE: Questioning The Intangible Versus Questioning the Tangible
Let me toss my hat in the ring here, because I actually vehemently agree with Vosur on this. Lately, up until my absence, I have noticed that the way we treated theists isn't exactly with respect.

Now maybe this was a problem that was always here, and in my anger and passion for the cause I just dismissed it or never noticed it before, but coming in on this specific issue a little bit disillusioned with the whole prospect, I definitely see the problem. When I was still around and doing the my forum interview series, I had many talks with many people and I remember specifically talking about the way we treat theists here on the board. I've talked to Stark about it, I've talked to kingschosen about it, and remember this was back in the day, this wasn't just recently.

The fact of the matter is, we have belittled theists for years.

Now, lets get this straight, I recognize the difference between criticism and bullying. I recognize that opposing someone is not the same as being mean to them, and therefore you can do one without the other. So why don't we? We have had some excellent discussions. I remember that some of the most enlightening discussions I've ever had were when I bumped heads with several theists on the board, and I've learned a lot from them. They tended to treat me with respect, and I tended to do the same, even while we disagreed. This is how people argue, debate, exchange and sell their product in the marketplace of ideas. Remember kingschosen? We (at least according to my memory) treated him with respect because we understood that him being a theist wasn't everything and we accepted his different opinions and funny personality enough to even have him be an admin. Maybe we need to recognize that these theists are the same way, and maybe we need to start encouraging them. I hate to see what this community has become (or maybe what its always been), because I know that with each post calling a theist an idiot or insinuating such just seeks to drive them away.

We aren't engaging in meaningful dialogue, we are throwing shit at them until they disappear.

(11-01-2017 12:48 PM)morondog Wrote:  
(11-01-2017 09:07 AM)Vosur Wrote:  Sorry mate, but the only thing that doubling down on your sarcasm does is prove his point even further. He's absolutely right that people who disagree with the popular views on this forum get mocked, belittled, insulted and ganged up on at every turn.

FFS pull the stick out your ass. CW isn't some guy on a pedestal, he's a shithead just like everyone else, except he gets pissy when his puerile bullshit gets called out.

Of course we mock idiots. What do you want us to do with them?

Don't throw shit back at them, don't mock them, engage them in their claims with civility. Is that too much to ask?

(12-01-2017 10:21 AM)Banjo Wrote:  Vosur. My reaction was born of long long experience. I knew what was going on.

Seen it too many times.

Who gives a shit, frankly, how many times you've seen it. It's irrelevant. It doesn't make your actions okay or the words you say okay. When did you become so jaded that you think that every theist deserves insults?

Maybe the problem isn't with them.

(12-01-2017 10:27 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(12-01-2017 10:18 AM)Vosur Wrote:  I don't disagree with those who say that her religious beliefs don't constitute critical thinking, I disagree with those who try to imply that religious believers are not or cannot be critical thinkers. The history of our species is filled to the brim with intelligent people whose religious beliefs didn't stop them from using critical thinking to advance our civilization through science and philosophy.

No one here said what you claim in this generalization.
Your negative generalizations are you doing exactly what you seem to be whining about.
Pot meet kettle.

Bucky, I love you man, but I can't read some of your posts anymore. I don't know what happened, but you became one of the top people that perpetuate the problem. You're smart, but its hard to get through your facts when you insult them and act condescending the whole time.

Now, I know, I am not here often. Who am I to say these things? I'm just an old friend who cares about all you guys here and who just wanted to give out my two cents. Feel free to tear me apart, but I think that its something that needed to be said.

Love you guys,

-Steven

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