Questioning The Intangible Versus Questioning the Tangible
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12-01-2017, 02:02 PM
RE: Questioning The Intangible Versus Questioning the Tangible
(12-01-2017 01:38 PM)Vosur Wrote:  I used the term "imply" for a reason. I never claimed that anyone outright said it.

To be honest I don't see even implying. I think that you see what you want to see.

Quote:This seems like an unproductive exchange. I don't think there's anything I can say to convince you that your own words conveyed a meaning different from the one you intended them to convey. It's difficult to be certain about the intention behind someone's words online absent contextual clues like tone of voice and body language, so if I really did misinterpret you, I apologize.

Yes there is nothing that you could say that would convince me that my words have conveyed another meaning as I know what I wanted to say and dare I claim I was even somehow precise in it. I agree that others could as your example shows read them in other way, but I'm responsible for what I write not for what others understood.

Quote:This is the second time I have to point out that I was not referring to your post in the last paragraph. I'm not going to repeat myself a third time.

What made you think that part about active imagination was directed at you? I find it very telling that you think so.

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12-01-2017, 02:20 PM
RE: Questioning The Intangible Versus Questioning the Tangible
(12-01-2017 01:50 PM)Atothetheist Wrote:  Lately, up until my absence, I have noticed that the way we treated theists isn't exactly with respect.

I'm relative newcomer and some would say one of offenders in this case. I think however that "we" treat theists with respect they deserve. Deserve being keyword here.

Quote:Now maybe this was a problem that was always here, and in my anger and passion for the cause I just dismissed it or never noticed it before, but coming in on this specific issue a little bit disillusioned with the whole prospect, I definitely see the problem.

To be honest I see no problem. Silly stories deserve ridicule at least from my pov. Conspiracy theories deserve ridicule.

Quote:When I was still around and doing the my forum interview series, I had many talks with many people and I remember specifically talking about the way we treat theists here on the board. I've talked to Stark about it, I've talked to kingschosen about it, and remember this was back in the day, this wasn't just recently.

The fact of the matter is, we have belittled theists for years.

Have to trust you on this. On this that you feel that theists were (unjustly?) belittled to be precise.

Quote:Now, lets get this straight, I recognize the difference between criticism and bullying. I recognize that opposing someone is not the same as being mean to them, and therefore you can do one without the other. So why don't we? We have had some excellent discussions.

It's hard to have excellent discussion with someone screaming god did it you stupid heathens. I think you're seeing sawdust speck in eye of atheists but you're missing entire fucking tree in theists eye.

Quote:I remember that some of the most enlightening discussions I've ever had were when I bumped heads with several theists on the board, and I've learned a lot from them.

I don't. Good discussions I had with atheists.

Quote:They tended to treat me with respect, and I tended to do the same, even while we disagreed. This is how people argue, debate, exchange and sell their product in the marketplace of ideas.

Here's the thing - I'm not interested in selling. I have no need of sugar coating my words cause while I feel only contempt for religion I respect believers freedom to believe whatever stupid thing they choose.

Quote:Maybe we need to recognize that these theists are the same way, and maybe we need to start encouraging them. I hate to see what this community has become (or maybe what its always been), because I know that with each post calling a theist an idiot or insinuating such just seeks to drive them away.

Or maybe "we" could accept that not all theist are cuddly bears who wan't intellectually stimulating conversations. Some are idiots.

Quote:Feel free to tear me apart, but I think that its something that needed to be said.

It may sound uncivil but I hate when someone ends like that. You said what you felt but you aren't some martyr that thrown himself to the den of lions. Some people will agree, some won't but that's all, no need for such melodramatics. Or at least I see no need.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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12-01-2017, 02:27 PM
RE: Questioning The Intangible Versus Questioning the Tangible
(12-01-2017 02:20 PM)Szuchow Wrote:  
(12-01-2017 01:50 PM)Atothetheist Wrote:  Lately, up until my absence, I have noticed that the way we treated theists isn't exactly with respect.

I'm relative newcomer and some would say one of offenders in this case. I think however that "we" treat theists with respect they deserve. Deserve being keyword here.

Quote:Now maybe this was a problem that was always here, and in my anger and passion for the cause I just dismissed it or never noticed it before, but coming in on this specific issue a little bit disillusioned with the whole prospect, I definitely see the problem.

To be honest I see no problem. Silly stories deserve ridicule at least from my pov. Conspiracy theories deserve ridicule.

Quote:When I was still around and doing the my forum interview series, I had many talks with many people and I remember specifically talking about the way we treat theists here on the board. I've talked to Stark about it, I've talked to kingschosen about it, and remember this was back in the day, this wasn't just recently.

The fact of the matter is, we have belittled theists for years.

Have to trust you on this. On this that you feel that theists were (unjustly?) belittled to be precise.

Quote:Now, lets get this straight, I recognize the difference between criticism and bullying. I recognize that opposing someone is not the same as being mean to them, and therefore you can do one without the other. So why don't we? We have had some excellent discussions.

It's hard to have excellent discussion with someone screaming god did it you stupid heathens. I think you're seeing sawdust speck in eye of atheists but you're missing entire fucking tree in theists eye.

Quote:I remember that some of the most enlightening discussions I've ever had were when I bumped heads with several theists on the board, and I've learned a lot from them.

I don't. Good discussions I had with atheists.

Quote:They tended to treat me with respect, and I tended to do the same, even while we disagreed. This is how people argue, debate, exchange and sell their product in the marketplace of ideas.

Here's the thing - I'm not interested in selling. I have no need of sugar coating my words cause while I feel only contempt for religion I respect believers freedom to believe whatever stupid thing they choose.

Quote:Maybe we need to recognize that these theists are the same way, and maybe we need to start encouraging them. I hate to see what this community has become (or maybe what its always been), because I know that with each post calling a theist an idiot or insinuating such just seeks to drive them away.

Or maybe "we" could accept that not all theist are cuddly bears who wan't intellectually stimulating conversations. Some are idiots.

Quote:Feel free to tear me apart, but I think that its something that needed to be said.

It may sound uncivil but I hate when someone ends like that. You said what you felt but you aren't some martyr that thrown himself to the den of lions. Some people will agree, some won't but that's all, no need for such melodramatics. Or at least I see no need.

I see you are unfamiliar with the edrama I've been a part of on this site. I tend to be on yeh wrong side of things, and I get my ass torn apart either justly or unjustly. This is me telling everyone that I've prepared for such an outcome.

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12-01-2017, 02:32 PM
RE: Questioning The Intangible Versus Questioning the Tangible
(12-01-2017 02:02 PM)Szuchow Wrote:  To be honest I don't see even implying. I think that you see what you want to see.
You really don't see how framing her story as that of a critical thinker whose brain stopped working properly after her conversion experience (the part of her brain responsible for skepticism to be specific) implies that a (converted) theist can't be a critical thinker?

(12-01-2017 02:02 PM)Szuchow Wrote:  Yes there is nothing that you could say that would convince me that my words have conveyed another meaning as I know what I wanted to say and dare I claim I was even somehow precise in it. I agree that others could as your example shows read them in other way, but I'm responsible for what I write not for what others understood.
That's fair enough.

(12-01-2017 02:02 PM)Szuchow Wrote:  What made you think that part about active imagination was directed at you? I find it very telling that you think so.
Who else would it be directed at? I'm the only person you've been arguing with in this entire thread.

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12-01-2017, 02:33 PM
RE: Questioning The Intangible Versus Questioning the Tangible
(12-01-2017 02:27 PM)Atothetheist Wrote:  
(12-01-2017 02:20 PM)Szuchow Wrote:  I'm relative newcomer and some would say one of offenders in this case. I think however that "we" treat theists with respect they deserve. Deserve being keyword here.


To be honest I see no problem. Silly stories deserve ridicule at least from my pov. Conspiracy theories deserve ridicule.


Have to trust you on this. On this that you feel that theists were (unjustly?) belittled to be precise.


It's hard to have excellent discussion with someone screaming god did it you stupid heathens. I think you're seeing sawdust speck in eye of atheists but you're missing entire fucking tree in theists eye.


I don't. Good discussions I had with atheists.


Here's the thing - I'm not interested in selling. I have no need of sugar coating my words cause while I feel only contempt for religion I respect believers freedom to believe whatever stupid thing they choose.


Or maybe "we" could accept that not all theist are cuddly bears who wan't intellectually stimulating conversations. Some are idiots.


It may sound uncivil but I hate when someone ends like that. You said what you felt but you aren't some martyr that thrown himself to the den of lions. Some people will agree, some won't but that's all, no need for such melodramatics. Or at least I see no need.

I see you are unfamiliar with the edrama I've been a part of on this site. I tend to be on yeh wrong side of things, and I get my ass torn apart either justly or unjustly. This is me telling everyone that I've prepared for such an outcome.

I'm familiar with edrama. More than that I saw what tolerance of stupidity can do to forum, namely it can sink it and made normal people stay away. Treating idiots like idiots is just defense mechanism - it allows people to see that stupidity isn't tolerated, and they may frequent forum without fear if being assaulted with nonsense.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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12-01-2017, 02:39 PM
RE: Questioning The Intangible Versus Questioning the Tangible
(12-01-2017 02:32 PM)Vosur Wrote:  You really don't see how framing her story as that of a critical thinker whose brain stopped working properly after her conversion experience (the part of her brain responsible for skepticism to be specific) implies that a (converted) theist can't be a critical thinker?

No, I really don't see how saying that "After all those years of thinking critically, you had an experience in your brain and somehow the skeptical part of your brain stopped working" imply that theists in general can't be critical thinkers.

If one is oversensitive then one could read these words as implying that theists with same kind of experience that OP stated she had couldn't be a critical thinker but that's all.

Quote:Who else would it be directed at? I'm the only person you've been arguing with in this entire thread.

Who else? Any person with overactive imagination that thought so.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

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12-01-2017, 03:01 PM
RE: Questioning The Intangible Versus Questioning the Tangible
(11-01-2017 05:19 AM)Celestial_Wonder Wrote:  
(11-01-2017 04:05 AM)Banjo Wrote:  Are you simple, or what?

Observation, when the denizens of this forum come across someone that disagrees with them their first reaction is to belittle, insult, demean, and mock that person. Hardly fitting of the 'higher' class of simians they claim to be. But something more expected of a chimpanzee who flings his dung at his enemy, except in the place of dung there is verbal slurs.

It's not that we disagree, it's that your ideas are patently absurd. Drinking Beverage

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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12-01-2017, 03:02 PM
RE: Questioning The Intangible Versus Questioning the Tangible
(11-01-2017 06:15 AM)Vosur Wrote:  
(11-01-2017 06:12 AM)Deesse23 Wrote:  Wow, stunning! absolutely amazing, interesting. Your observation is spot on. I admire your intellect for coming to make these astounding observations.

Is that more what you like to hear?
You just exemplified his point by sarcastically mocking him. Facepalm

No, because his point was about disagreement, not about stupidity. The mockery is for the stupidity.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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12-01-2017, 03:02 PM
RE: Questioning The Intangible Versus Questioning the Tangible
Vosur, AtotheTheist, thank you for taking the time to reply to my thread. If I may inquire one thing of you (and perhaps others that want to give their opinion on the matter) what do you think causes this sort of behavior? Surely the fact that they never have to meet these people face to face probably has something to do with it but I don't think that it alone is the cause, then there is certainly also pack mentality but I think there's also a little bit more to it than that as well.

I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts on the matter.
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12-01-2017, 03:05 PM
RE: Questioning The Intangible Versus Questioning the Tangible
(11-01-2017 09:07 AM)Vosur Wrote:  
(11-01-2017 07:29 AM)Deesse23 Wrote:  I am just honestly trying to make him happy. Thats why i asked him. Banjos (loaded) question didnt seem to be acceptable, so i thought he would appreciate some positive feedback.
How did you figure i was sarcastic? I truly think CW deserves some appreciation (after he suffered so much abuse in the past), so i was asking how i could give him a little positive feedback, thats all.

I totally agree with him when he says
It is stupid not to believe in a single conspiracy theory. There are so many out there, one must be true, at least one.
So, what bad can it be to believe in a conspiracy theory. Come on, only one, it cant hurt at all. He is spot on. Dont be so picky.

Or this really spectacular thought:
Dont you remember all those conspiracies that were uncovered by conspiracy theorists and their good science in the past? If you dont remember, its maybe due to a conspiracy to try and gloss over the uncovering of all those conspiracies. Think about it!

Lets be honest and have a look in the mirror
Cant you remember all the endless threads where TTA was presented with hard facts, hypotheses and even elaborate scientific theories and how hard the scientific ignorant members here tried to reject and deflect? It happens every day on TTA: Someone opens a thread (like pops, Kerim, etc.) presents his groundbreaking ideas, and all they get back is ignorance and pack-like attacks. It even happened to the OP, multiple times even. Go back and check the threads.

Finally, and its heartbreaking, check this out:
It was about time that someone told this pack of TTA dickheads that their motivation is due to what the want to believe. It was about time someone told them what they want to believe! Why always rejecting those bright souls who really know what you want to believe? Its about time you guys accept what these clever individuals are telling you. I mean, its an observation, and its one by someone who is very well known for being both, clever and reasonable like the OP. How do you dare to have your own standard of evidence anyway? How arrogant and presumptuous. If you ask CW for evidence and CW presensts what he thinks is evidence, how do you dare to reject said evidence? Hypocrites!
Sorry mate, but the only thing that doubling down on your sarcasm does is prove his point even further. He's absolutely right that people who disagree with the popular views on this forum get mocked, belittled, insulted and ganged up on at every turn.

Stupidity and stupid ideas get mocked; simple disagreement does not.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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