Questions... :-/
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02-07-2011, 09:51 PM
Questions... :-/
Hey Blush I'm back, the confused muslim guy
in the past few days I had many questions, which in religion are all answered by "God made it!" Undecided
1) What happened before the big bang?
2) How were plants found on earth?
3) What could have created this complex universe?
4) As an atheist, how can you explain morality?
and thank you for helping me on my last thread Blush Blush
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02-07-2011, 10:06 PM
RE: Questions... :-/
1) What happened before the big bang?

I dunno. Maybe another universe was sucked back into itself causing the big bang that made us. Infinite cycle of events.

2) How were plants found on earth?

Huh? I would imagine something walked by and was like oh hey a thing unlike me, I shall call it plant. Unless you mean how did they get here. In which case I would say the same way we did. A complex series of events, whereas certain chemicals combined to form the cells necessary for plant life to begin. I'm not a scientist though. This may help. http://www.learner.org/courses/essential...oser2.html

3) What could have created this complex universe?

I dunno. Maybe it just always has been.

4) As an atheist, how can you explain morality?

I believe morality to be based around the basis of what you would want to be treated like. What you would want your kids to be treated like. My biggest issue with religious morality is it is based around punishment. If you don't behave this way then you will go to hell. I don't do things out of fear of repercussion I do them because that's how I'd want to be treated. I think if you do them because you'll be punished otherwise then you may not really mean them in the first place. I think that throughout time we learned as a species what things if done would carry negative reactions, such as murder, and so we passed that knowledge to our ancestors and so on and so on.

"I think of myself as an intelligent, sensitive human being with the soul of a clown which always forces me to blow it at the most important moments." -Jim Morrison
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02-07-2011, 10:34 PM
RE: Questions... :-/
(02-07-2011 09:51 PM)CONFUSED Wrote:  
Hey Blush I'm back, the confused muslim guy
in the past few days I had many questions, which in religion are all answered by "God made it!" Undecided
1) What happened before the big bang?
2) How were plants found on earth?
3) What could have created this complex universe?
4) As an atheist, how can you explain morality?
and thank you for helping me on my last thread Blush Blush

1. Well, many scientists really don't know. That's the beauty of science, you don't have to know everything. As you see on the first page of "The Thinking Atheist" you see the quotation, "An argument that explains everything, explains nothing." Scientists keep striving to find out the mysteries of the universe, so one day we will know. For a better answer I suggest you research about the big bang, or ask a physics teacher or professor, they might have a better answer for you, or at least point you in the right direction to learn more.

2. Plants on this earth first evolved from algae, which is actually in the kingdom of protists. Eventually algae started to grow outside the ocean on rocks, these plants are known as lichens and moss, they are non-vascular, which means water simply defuses into the cells from outside the plant, these plants do not have a root system. From there on out plants developed on land, developing root systems, vascular systems, and eventually flowers. For more information in evolutionary plant biology ask a biology teacher or professor, or simply google it online.

3. Honestly I don't know how to answer this question as I'm not trained enough in physics to tell you the principles of the universe, for this I suggest you ask a physics professor or teacher.

4. I believe that morality and ethics are actually subjective. The reason we have common themes in morality and ethics are actually due to those things being good for a functional and stable society. I really think This video is really good explanation about morality without a god/gods. If you hang around this site you will see many people discuss morality.

Confused, here are a few suggestions for making you less confused.

1. Take science classes, read science books, watch science programs. Better understanding of basic science will help you ask more advanced questions, and allow a better understanding of the universe as a whole.

2. Do not assume atheists will know the answers to complex science questions simply because they are atheists. Science is a very complex field of education, requiring specialization in different areas, like biology, chemistry, physics. The best bet when asking complex science questions is actually going to the source, not only will they know your answer, but they will be able to provide you a more complete answer.

3. Stick around for a little while. To really understand why we think the way we think hang out on the forums, participate in discussions, befriend some atheists. Not only will you have a better understanding of our thought process, but you will be able to dispel some myths about atheism. The beauty of it is not all atheists think the same way, in fact, it's quite the opposite, so you will also get a virtual menagerie of thoughts and opinions.

4. Questions are not just chances for debate. Ask questions, lots of questions, but please be quiet until they are answered. If something confuses you, ask. Don't use the opportunity to ask questions to start vicious debates. I have seem this tactic done many many times, which is why I generally don't answer questions. If someone is kind enough to take the time and answer your questions, then tell them thank you and move on.

Those are just some pointers to get science questions answered in both real life and the internet. If you are generally interested in furthering your understanding, then I wish you the best of luck.

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02-07-2011, 10:38 PM (This post was last modified: 02-07-2011 10:44 PM by Buddy Christ.)
RE: Questions... :-/
1. It's really hard to know. The Big Bang can be supported by following things we can observe back to the event itself. But before that, there's really no trail to follow so it's all speculation. I don't see how we can even hypothesize before the Big Bang unless we are able to recreate it in a lab. But then we are risking a lot by making new universes inside other universes.

Another problem is that it's suggested that existence and time are dependent on one another. If time and space really did "begin" with the Big Bang, then there is no "before" the Big Bang. And if there was a timeless, spaceless environment, then our minds would be incapable of grasping such an existence so it's pointless to even try.

And by all that, what I mean is: God did it.

EDIT: Contrary to theist belief, saying "I don't know" as an atheist is not proof of a deity.


2. Everything on Earth started with simple amino acids and reacted and evolved into different things with the oxygen formation in the atmosphere. Here and here are some starting sources.


3. It didn't begin complex. People look at what we have now and are constantly wondering how these complex things could have poofed into existence. They didn't. Everything started with the basic building blocks of life and over 13 billion years it slowly grow more and more complex one small step at a time.


4. There are a lot of threads on this site based on this. Basically, morality is simply the guidelines that we follow based on human suffering preferences and self-interest. We certainly don't follow any religious doctrines, or else we'd be killing disobedient children and raping women left and right.

"Ain't got no last words to say, yellow streak right up my spine. The gun in my mouth was real and the taste blew my mind."

"We see you cry. We turn your head. Then we slap your face. We see you try. We see you fail. Some things never change."
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02-07-2011, 11:11 PM
RE: Questions... :-/
thank you all Heart
pardon me, but the reason I'm always asking questions here is that many of the sites discussing about the big bang, evolution... etc is that the saudi arabian government did a really nice job on blocking sites that relate to those topics.. here, if you go around asking teachers questions like the questions above, they'll think that you're crazy for questioning Islam, the religion that scientists convert to it when they read the holy qura'an!
so I only have a limited number of sources Undecided
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03-07-2011, 04:09 AM
RE: Questions... :-/
I doubt you would be able to find and download it, but Matt Dillahunty did a lecture a while ago on secular morality. Non-religious morality is actually superior to religious morality in many ways.

"I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason and intellect has intended us to forego their use." - Galileo

"Every man is guilty of all the good he did not do." - Voltaire
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03-07-2011, 06:13 AM
RE: Questions... :-/
I am truly sorry you live in a country where one's access to scientific education is very limited. I stand by what I said, though I know you are a special circumstance. Is Youtube blocked in your country? There is a lot of educational information there about evolution and cosmology. I'm going to try and find you some legitimate websites where you can access this information.

However, I do worry for you, I hope you do not get in legal trouble for accessing any websites which may have controversial views towards your nation's views on religion. So please be careful!

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03-07-2011, 09:42 AM
RE: Questions... :-/
I have had numorous debates with Muslim's due to me being in England, they are very indoctrinated. I was informed by a friends parent that; "Evolution is a lie, it's just satin trying to confuse." And then proceeded to try and force their faith on me.

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03-07-2011, 12:12 PM
RE: Questions... :-/
The only question I can provide any real insight in is number 2. The hypothesized first lifeform was likely to be something similar to a virus that was able to replicate (something modern microbiologists have been trying to reconstruct in the last few decades). In these first years of life nutrients and energy would have been abundant and life simply needed to collect nutrients and harness energy. The first organisms were likely to be chemosynthetic (such as sulfur reducing bacteria found in hydrothermal vents or hot springs) but as life began to spread and expand the need for better acquiring energy and nutrients arose. This would have gave way to the first photosynthetic bacteria. From here it has been hypothesized that bacteria began to form symbiotic relationships with one another. This is the likely origin for the first eukaryotes as smaller bacteria began to enter into the cells of larger bacteria. Evidence for this exists in the form of mitochondria in animal cells and chloroplasts in plant cells. These photosynthetic bacteria gave rise to organisms such as stromatolites (one of my favorite fossils and they still exist today in places like sharks bay in Australia) that began harnessing the sun's light in massive amounts. This massive surge in photosynthesis began to oxygenate the oceans (as all of this began in oceans and is still confined there...for now). This great oxygenation event began to oxidize iron dissolved in the oceans creating the massive banded iron formations that are very common in Canada and Australia. After the iron source was depleted in the oceans free oxygen began to become abundant in the oceans and this led to the oxygenation of Earth's atmosphere. Skip forward now a few hundred million years and now animal life has begun to develop and flourish in the oceans (Cambrian). This now drives plants to begin to move towards land in order to avoid being eaten. These first land plants would have been very simple (no vascular system) and would have still relied on standing water for transport of nutrients and sex cells (like ferns). Eventually as plants moved further and further away from water sources root systems began to develop, vascular systems became essential for uptake of nutrients and water and new methods for sexual reproduction and seed dispersal became necessary. These eventually gave rise to the conifers that dominated the plant world until the late Mesozoic when the flowering plants began to diversify (likely thanks to the coevolution of insects for purposes of pollination).

Hope that brief summary helps!

“Science is simply common sense at its best, that is, rigidly accurate in observation, and merciless to fallacy in logic.”
—Thomas Henry Huxley
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03-07-2011, 12:29 PM
RE: Questions... :-/
(03-07-2011 09:42 AM)Ms Rukia Wrote:  I have had numorous debates with Muslim's due to me being in England, they are very indoctrinated. I was informed by a friends parent that; "Evolution is a lie, it's just satin trying to confuse." And then proceeded to try and force their faith on me.

You live in England, so do I!! My friend asked me if why I don't become Muslim since I don't like Christianity but I said it's too tiresome to follow a religion and I don't believe in God.

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