Questions???
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 1 Votes - 1 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
06-02-2014, 08:55 AM
RE: Questions???
sorry buckster I'm in it for the long haul.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
06-02-2014, 09:21 AM
RE: Questions???
(06-02-2014 08:31 AM)Drich Wrote:  
(05-02-2014 11:33 PM)toadaly Wrote:  Maybe you mean well, but honestly, a lot of us here are former theists, so we don't have a lot of questions for theists, and by now, you should realize no-one is even taking the OP seriously. We tend to kinda sorta remember the apologetics and claptrap like a hazy nightmare.

It might be more productive if you present a challenge instead....and if not more productive, at least more mean spiritted and fun.Evil_monster

What I hope to do over the comming months, is to show you the contrast between biblical Christianity and what 'Most of the theist' believe Christianity to be.



Oh goodie.
There's more.

Sadcryface

When I want your opinion I'll read your entrails.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
06-02-2014, 10:14 AM (This post was last modified: 06-02-2014 10:24 AM by Raptor Jesus.)
RE: Questions???
(06-02-2014 08:23 AM)Taqiyya Mockingbird Wrote:  
(05-02-2014 11:28 PM)Raptor Jesus Wrote:  Of course not! That would be ridiculous!

It was the magic Blue Fairy. She tapped him on his head with her magic wand, and that's how the magic entered him to cause him to come to life. It's very clear when you think about it really.

So that's where the magic came from that makes his nose grow. The reason his nose was magiced to grow when telling a lie was because he could only become a real boy if he learned right from wrong. So she make his nose grow when he lied to help teach him to stay on the right path. Otherwise how else would he know if he was telling a lie? It was for his own good really. Surly you can see that.

Also, it's that same magic from the Blue Fairy that gave Jiminy his clothes he wears (his little suit and hat) and made him Pinocchio's external conscience, as a magic guide on his journey.

But what's the point of becoming a real boy if your nose is six feet long? No



And why didn't the Blue Fairy magick Pinocchio into a state where he knew right from wrong and be done with it? Seems like an awful stupid Blue Fairy. Quite not unlike a certain other Blue Fairy we keep hearing so much about.....Dodgy

First of all, you are misconstruing something, as most typical Apinocchioist tend to do.

His nose clearly did not continue growing after he became a real boy. That was the whole point of the ordeal he was put through. While he was a living wooden, marionette, his nose growing was only for the purpose of learning right from wrong, in the form of lying. So that he could eventually learn to be good enough of a fake wooden boy to earn the right to be a real little boy. Once turned into a real boy, what need would he have for a nose to test him? He’s already proved himself. So no, his nose stopped growing as a real boy. Plus, by this point he ascended into perfection through his sacrifice, death, and resurrection, by the magic Blue Fairy, ‘wings be upon her’, and never told a lie again anyway.

If the magic Blue Fairy, 'wings be upon her', simply made gave him life already with the knowledge of right from wrong built in, it would have taken his free will away. We don't want him to just be some mindless puppet, with his "strings" being pulled and controled by some higher power controlling his every action and movement from up above him, do we? No, Pinocchio is about free will and choice, morals, being a good little boy, and the power of the ever lasting magic Blue Fairy,'wings be upon her'. Without Pinocchio and the magic Blue Fairy,'wings be upon her', I ask you were would we get our morals from?

Are you saying you would prefer a world in which just any wooden marionette gets full real boyhood rights without a trial phase? The world would turn to madness if that happened. Real boys who never developed morals or empathy for anyone or anything, running the streets murdering, robbing, and raping! Not the world I want to live in! How else do you expect Pinocchio to learn good from evil...by guessing? No the magic Blue Fairy, ‘wings be upon her’, knows what she’s doing. Do not question the magic Blue Fairy, ‘wings be upon her’. It had to be this way so that he could learn first and be prepared for real boyhood.

...
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like Raptor Jesus's post
06-02-2014, 10:31 AM
RE: Questions???
(05-02-2014 04:14 PM)Drich Wrote:  I know you have ask a theist sticky already, but I wanted to take this time to ask you all if anyone had any questions before I stirred this pot again...

If not then maybe you could tell me what intrest you the most:

How to defeat the Epicurus Parodox

God does not love everyone

Hell

Messengers/angels

Is God truly Omni-max?

Freewill and what the bible has to say about it

Which church is the right one out of 30,000 different expressions of Christanity

Sin/repentance and what it truly means

Homosexuality, is it a sin

Genesis over view

(these are a few I have more if you like.)

Why do you believe any of that or concern yourself with such ridiculous questions? Consider

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
[Image: flagstiny%206.gif]
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Chas's post
06-02-2014, 11:15 AM
RE: Questions???
(05-02-2014 10:27 PM)Drich Wrote:  He didn't/doesn't. If you look at the history of the church bibles in the hands of believers are a relative new thing. The bible was only found in manuscript form till about 1450 and even then it was still in latin (only clergy could read it) for another 100 years. Many were burned at the stake for just quoting scripture in English, let alone translating a whole bible. (there were those who were burned for teaching their children to say the lord's prayer in English durning that time.) After which the tynsdale bible was the first printed in the English and it was reserved for the church of England between the mid 1520s till 1611 several different English bibles were printed all for the use of the church but for the most part were all taken from one form of latin or another. In 1611 the KJV came off the presses. By the mid 16th century the KJV became avaiable to the masses. even so illeritacy kept it out of the hands of the common man for another 100 to 150 years.
http://www.greatsite.com/timeline-englis...e-history/

Quote:Indeed as with any translation there is a large room for error as translations are generally considered literal, or contextual. Literal Meaning translations are translated as close to the orginal as the translated language will allow. The draw back to this is one looses all of the intricacies of the orginal writtings. The intended meanings, the cultural undertones, the slang is all lost to the syntax and grammar corrections of the translated language.

Then there are contextual translations these translations are usually church sponsered and have twisted the orginal works and turned them to fit established church doctrines. These can be very dangerous. That is why the vast majority of the bibles are considered literal translations.

Which is why we were never commanded to follow the exact letter of the law. We were given a command to simply be faithful to what God has given us. Meaning to honor what our understanding of Christianity is to the absolute best of our ability. That is the goal post Christ set in the parable of the talents.

Quote:The bible is not God. The bible is the key to God. If one want to know God or have proof of God the bible is the key to establishing and maintaining that relationship.

Once the relationship with God has been established then one will be able to connect and attribute legitmacy for what it says God will do for the believer in what the believer experiences in his or her own life.

Quote:as in directly from the Holy Spirit? Yes! But, how does one know the revelation he receives is from the Holy Spirit? After all Mormonism and Islam were both started on what seemed like direction from God. That's where the bible comes back in. Because the same Holy Spirit that inspired the word now indwells you, and because of that the two will never be in conflict.

Quote:because 'we' have only been charged to be responsible to what we have been given. It is God's responsiablity to either forgive us for following the corrupted text or to change said text with like a Dead Sea scroll discovery.


Quote:the problem there is God is not the only one from that plain of existence who speaks to man. How do you sift or weigh what has been said if you do not have an absolute standard in which to judge your revelation?

Quote:Actually God tells us the opposite. In that Nothing can be known of God unless God/The Holy Spirit reveals it to us.


Ok, I've quoted some of your response, Drich, and highlighted some of the points. You seem to be jumping back and forth on how we get to our knowledge of God.

You seem to be saying that the Bible is the key to God. It is the way that we come to an understanding and establish a relationship with the Holy Spirit. It is the way that we confirm our revelations are of the Holy Spirit and not from a demon. However, you also admit that the translations of the Bible may be corrupted, and weren't in the hands of the common man for more than a century. How could those people for that century or so have developed a relationship with God without the key? How does an illiterate man develop a relationship with the Spirit?

How would a Peruvian native develop a relationship with the Spirit? You mentioned on that point that maybe the Jews were the only ones who listened when God revealed himself, but are you thinking that God revealed himself to generation after generation of Peruvian natives (or orientals, or north american natives, etc) and none of them listened? Or did he just reveal himself once, was rejected, and the subsequent generations were hopeless to develop a relationship with the Spirit as a result?

You mentioned that we can only know it is the spirit and not a demon because his words will be consistent with the Bible. But, since you have admitted the Bible I read may be a faulty translation, how do I know that I'm not talking to a demon who is tricking me using a faulty translation?

When I asked about why God wouldn't rely on something more universal like his creation (the universe) to convey his word, you mentioned "God is not the only one on that plane of existence." But, which is the easier one to forge, the stars in the sky or written words in a text? Whether it be through his creation or something else, surely God would have considered his word and message to us to be important enough that he would have conveyed it in a way that wasn't subject to translation errors, didn't require literacy and couldn't be forged.

Like I mentioned, I am a deist, I believe in the existence of a God, so you've got a head start on me as compared to most on this page. I was a Christian for the first 20+ years of my life and never had the Holy Spirit speak to me. Was I not worth speaking to? Was I not faithful enough?

What has spoken to me much louder is reason and logic. So, absent being spoken to by the Holy Spirit, how do I verify the veracity of the version of the Bible that I can read? And, why would God choose a method of conveying his word that is as fragile as written words on a page?

Moreover, why would God give me rationality and intelligence if I wasn't supposed to use it and was simply supposed to rely on faith in words on a page? If God exists in the form that you claim, then I put it to you that his gift of intelligence to me was a curse, because it is the reason that I strayed from his flock. If so, why would God structure the world such that intelligence is a curse?
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes lookingforanswers's post
06-02-2014, 11:19 AM
RE: Questions???
(06-02-2014 08:55 AM)Drich Wrote:  sorry buckster I'm in it for the long haul.

Nothing better to waste your time on I see.
I'm here also for the long haul. So far on TTA you have substantiated NOT ONE thing you have spouted or claimed. You can do your schtick from now till the cows come home. It will do as much good as it did on AF where you are very poorly thought of.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein
Those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music - Friedrich Nietzsche
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Bucky Ball's post
06-02-2014, 01:13 PM
RE: Questions???
(06-02-2014 11:15 AM)lookingforanswers Wrote:  Ok, I've quoted some of your response, Drich, and highlighted some of the points. You seem to be jumping back and forth on how we get to our knowledge of God.
i am happy to go over this with you.

Quote:You seem to be saying that the Bible is the key to God.
yes

Quote:It is the way that we come to an understanding and establish a relationship with the Holy Spirit. It is the way that we confirm our revelations are of the Holy Spirit and not from a demon.
Yes, Yes, and Yes.

Quote:However, you also admit that the translations of the Bible may be corrupted, and weren't in the hands of the common man for more than a century.
Yes

Quote:How could those people for that century or so have developed a relationship with God without the key?

The question you should be asking is what happened to all the people before that century where they had access to the bible?
(1900 years before the common man had the bible)
In the First two centuries they had the Apstoles themselves and they had thier writtings and the Hebrew scripture to help guide them. Then the 'Church' started to call for all the written material about Jesus (secular and 'religious') and compiled it into the bible. Once this happened Hand written bibles were issued to each region/church. It was from the pulpits that the people were exposed to the writtings and teachings/The key of establishing and maintaining a relationship with God throughout all that time.

Quote:How does an illiterate man develop a relationship with the Spirit?
Through the Hearing, and subsequent doing of God's word. (He goes to church and A/S/K's.)
Then the Holy Spirit indewells that man and writes the word on his heart.

Quote:How would a Peruvian native develop a relationship with the Spirit?
Same way.. That is why the Church has always sent missionaries.

Quote:You mentioned on that point that maybe the Jews were the only ones who listened when God revealed himself, but are you thinking that God revealed himself to generation after generation of Peruvian natives (or orientals, or north american natives, etc) and none of them listened? Or did he just reveal himself once, was rejected, and the subsequent generations were hopeless to develop a relationship with the Spirit as a result?
I believe God is all knowing. and revealed himself to the most righteous man a people would ever have, as He has with the Jews. It was either up to that man to do 'X' or His people to do 'Y' and this man did not or his people did not do 'X/Y' and their relationship with God died there.
-Or- God being all knowing simply knew what would happen if He said or told a people, and just picked the guy/people He knew this whole salvation thing would work through.

Quote:You mentioned that we can only know it is the spirit and not a demon because his words will be consistent with the Bible. But, since you have admitted the Bible I read may be a faulty translation, how do I know that I'm not talking to a demon who is tricking me using a faulty translation?
Again we are only responsiable for what we have been given. This is a theme carried throughout scripture. Which make Scriptural purity God's issue and not ours. For if He authorized one book/set of books, and it is faulty then it is up to him to change those words or forgive us when we mis-step by those words.

If your idea of 'god' simply expects you to know what he wants, based on the time of year acorns fall,or which way the wind blows, then know it is not the God of the bible, and you should probably want to stay away from this psycopath.

Quote:When I asked about why God wouldn't rely on something more universal like his creation (the universe) to convey his word, you mentioned "God is not the only one on that plane of existence." But, which is the easier one to forge, the stars in the sky or written words in a text?
The Stars from our perspective may not change but the interpertation of them varies from person to person. As far as the bible being God's standard, look at Some of the Dead sea scrolls more over Isaiah scroll and it's level of accuracy compared to what we had.
http://www.apologeticspress.org/apconten...rticle=357

Even the atheist sites I looked up will acknoweledge the accuracy of this scroll and go after other ones for other reasons.

I point to this to Say if God has put his seal around this book then there is little 'we' can do to Change it.

Quote:Whether it be through his creation or something else, surely God would have considered his word and message to us to be important enough that he would have conveyed it in a way that wasn't subject to translation errors, didn't require literacy and couldn't be forged.
Again i agree. the bible tells us this happens through the indewellment of the Holy Spirit. The bible then becomes a simple reference point. It assures the believer that his indwellment does indeed come from God.

Quote:Like I mentioned, I am a deist, I believe in the existence of a God, so you've got a head start on me as compared to most on this page. I was a Christian for the first 20+ years of my life and never had the Holy Spirit speak to me. Was I not worth speaking to? Was I not faithful enough?
Faith has nothing to do with it. Humility is the key here. Let me guess you asked God to speak with you/strengthen your faith and nothing happened.. Then you wandered from your brand of Christianity right?

Now without know what brand of Christianity was... What if your particular brand/beliefs were not nessarily wrong, but let's say would foster a less than ideal belief/relationship with God than what you were capiable of or was asking for? If you were in His position would you confirm the young believer's belief in a flawed system, or would you have him rebuild based on a one on one relationship?

What did Jesus have to say about this?
Are you familiar with the Parable of the wise and foolish builders?
24 “Therefore whoever hears these sayings of Mine, and does them, I will liken him to a wise man who built his house on the rock: 25 and the rain descended, the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house; and it did not fall, for it was founded on the rock.

26 “But everyone who hears these sayings of Mine, and does not do them, will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand: 27 and the rain descended, the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house; and it fell. And great was its fall.”

The 'house' we are building is your religion, your faith, your beliefs, or whatever you called you walk with God.
If you built your 'house' on the things of religion, the saying, rules and practices, then this is the same as building your house on the sand.

So when you asked God for a closer connection He answered your prayers and sent the rains which came and took your house away, Giving you oppertunity to rebuild on the Rock as Jesus puts it. That is, if you were FAITHFUL to what you have been given. Because It takes a large measure of humility to persue Christ after just about everything has been washed away/taken, and one is left with little more than a mustard seed.

If you truly want to know God continue to Ask Seek and Knock as outlined in Luke 11. To me it sounds as if you are pretty close to getting what you started looking for way back when.. Just honor and be faithful to what He give or shows you.

Quote:What has spoken to me much louder is reason and logic. So, absent being spoken to by the Holy Spirit, how do I verify the veracity of the version of the Bible that I can read? And, why would God choose a method of conveying his word that is as fragile as written words on a page?
I think your going about this the wrong way. First A/S/K for the Holy Spirit and then pick up the literal translation of the bible you are lead to.

Quote:Moreover, why would God give me rationality and intelligence if I wasn't supposed to use it and was simply supposed to rely on faith in words on a page? If God exists in the form that you claim, then I put it to you that his gift of intelligence to me was a curse, because it is the reason that I strayed from his flock. If so, why would God structure the world such that intelligence is a curse?
What makes you think that rational and intelligence is not needed? Your going to need and use absolutly every scrap you have and then some to try and wrap your head around some of the stuff you have ahead of you.

Look at my work here just with you. None of what I have said to you was prepackaged for me. everything I have shared with you came from personal study and revelation.. (Actually revelation came first then the study to back it all up.) Turning your mind off and having faith is apart of that brand of Christianity you must have been apart of that God was not willing to support, by confirming Himself to you through them. God appearently knows that you have it in you(as well as the rest of the people here comming from your type of situation) to A/S/k and find him that way.. the only question is do you all have the humility to plant that mustard seed where He told you to plant it?
Or will you simply do things your way..

If you humble yourself before God He Will Lift you up.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
06-02-2014, 02:14 PM
RE: Questions???
(06-02-2014 08:31 AM)Drich Wrote:  What I hope to do over the comming months, is to show you the contrast between biblical Christianity and what 'Most of the theist' believe Christianity to be.

What makes you think that I, or others here, don't already know these differences?

Softly, softly, catchee monkey.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes toadaly's post
06-02-2014, 02:32 PM
RE: Questions???
Hey Drich, make with the Epicurus dude! You claimed you can resolve this ?

The standard answer to the 'paradox' is that God's a douche or non-existent. Refute ?

We'll love you just the way you are
If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
06-02-2014, 02:42 PM (This post was last modified: 06-02-2014 03:13 PM by Raptor Jesus.)
RE: Questions???
Drich,

Do you accept or reject the TRUTH that Pinocchio sacrificed his life while opposing the Great Leviathan, Monstro, in which he survived living inside the whale's belly, and upon Pinocchio’s death, his body was transmuted and he was resurrected by the magic Blue Fairy, 'wings be upon her', because of his great, unselfish sacrifice of his life that he proformed in the name of The Father Gepetto, The Great Creator, 'chizels be in thy hands' and for the lives of others?

...
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like Raptor Jesus's post
Post Reply
Forum Jump: