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26-09-2014, 05:31 AM
Questions
When debating theist we usually get to a certain point in the conversation where they express why they follow God. In some way, shape or form the explanation of "I don't know everything so I trust that God knows all". This raises a question for me. Where exactly are they drawing that conclusion from?

Now when talking about morals, which happens nearly every time you mention that your an atheist to a theist, a similar question is asked by them. Where do you get your morals from if you don't believe in a higher power? Of course most of us have answered this question numerous times in something similar to "Why do morals have to come from only a higher power?".

During a recent debate the point of God always being right or having a "plan" came up. I eventually got to the question of why God allows people to starve, be raped and such and not intervene. Of course I got the freewill excuse but that quickly was shot down once I posed the "mafia boss" scenario. Once we worked around that there was another explanation for why this is allowed to happen. This particular person believed that no matter if we thought something was bad or good can't be trusted because we are merely humans and God, being all knowing, is always right because it all fits his divine plan. So because of this what might seem like evil or wrong to us to happen on God's watch is irrelevant because we are mere humans and his is the almighty.

So what I took away from this explanation was that God is always right and we can't judge his actions because we don't have the capacity to see the big picture. This would be an acceptable answer(not that I agree with it) but I have a few questions.

If our judgement can't be trusted because we're only humans, how can the assessment that God is good be made?


Secondly, how can we even define God?

If the bible is your only go to that also was written by man. How can the assessment that this is truly God's word if it was written who's judgement is questionable?

As usual I'd love any and all feedback Thumbsup
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26-09-2014, 08:56 AM
RE: Questions
(26-09-2014 05:31 AM)MrKrispy601 Wrote:  
If our judgement can't be trusted because we're only humans, how can the assessment that God is good be made?

Because the Holy Bible tells them so. It's the word of god, god is perfect, god claims god is good, therefore god is good and he said so.

(26-09-2014 05:31 AM)MrKrispy601 Wrote:  Secondly, how can we even define God?

We can't. God defines god to the extent us limited humans can comprehend. That is why god can have contradictory traits like being all merciful and all just.

(26-09-2014 05:31 AM)MrKrispy601 Wrote:  If the bible is your only go to that also was written by man. How can the assessment that this is truly God's word if it was written who's judgement is questionable?

Because god is perfect, as the bible says, and a perfect, flawless god wouldn't let humans write his book in a way that did not accord with his wishes.

Note: I'm an atheist. But I can come up with dumbass arguments, too, for the other side, and it's the sort of thing I've heard from some die-hard Christians (if you frequent YouTube, I get most of this from Coherent Apologist, who at any given moment may or may not have a channel on the site as he's been banned from YT).
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27-09-2014, 09:30 AM
RE: Questions
(26-09-2014 05:31 AM)MrKrispy601 Wrote:  When debating theist we usually get to a certain point in the conversation where they express why they follow God. In some way, shape or form the explanation of "I don't know everything so I trust that God knows all". This raises a question for me. Where exactly are they drawing that conclusion from?

Now when talking about morals, which happens nearly every time you mention that your an atheist to a theist, a similar question is asked by them. Where do you get your morals from if you don't believe in a higher power? Of course most of us have answered this question numerous times in something similar to "Why do morals have to come from only a higher power?".

During a recent debate the point of God always being right or having a "plan" came up. I eventually got to the question of why God allows people to starve, be raped and such and not intervene. Of course I got the freewill excuse but that quickly was shot down once I posed the "mafia boss" scenario. Once we worked around that there was another explanation for why this is allowed to happen. This particular person believed that no matter if we thought something was bad or good can't be trusted because we are merely humans and God, being all knowing, is always right because it all fits his divine plan. So because of this what might seem like evil or wrong to us to happen on God's watch is irrelevant because we are mere humans and his is the almighty.

So what I took away from this explanation was that God is always right and we can't judge his actions because we don't have the capacity to see the big picture. This would be an acceptable answer(not that I agree with it) but I have a few questions.

If our judgement can't be trusted because we're only humans, how can the assessment that God is good be made?


Secondly, how can we even define God?

If the bible is your only go to that also was written by man. How can the assessment that this is truly God's word if it was written who's judgement is questionable?

As usual I'd love any and all feedback Thumbsup

All valid questions that need to be answered.

Do not lose your knowledge that man's proper estate is an upright posture, an intransigent mind and a step that travels unlimited roads. - Ayn Rand.

Don't sacrifice for me, live for yourself! - Me

The only alternative to Objectivism is some form of Subjectivism. - Dawson Bethrick
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