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28-03-2017, 05:55 PM
RE: Questions!
(28-03-2017 05:07 PM)adey67 Wrote:  
(28-03-2017 04:54 PM)Emma Wrote:  Meh, all you theists are the same anyway. Tongue

Nah, our resident friendly theists are here because they have a lot more in common with us than they care to admit subliminal like Tongue Big Grin

Unlike Aliza, I was raised in a religious home, but then again, also went to public school. I'd hope to be able to pass as what amounts to 'normal'. Tongue

(27-03-2017 05:27 PM)Chas Wrote:  Of course it does - because it's self-evidently true. Drinking Beverage

I don't think any of us are arguing against that though. (Well, perhaps KC and Alyssa may; going out on a limb and saying Aliza and I most likely don't.)

Need to think of a witty signature.
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28-03-2017, 06:03 PM
RE: Questions!
Regarding indoctrination, I'd say it is always abuse, or at least equivalent to abuse. ("Abuse" does imply intent to harm, which becomes a grey area when dealing with people who honestly believe they are helping their child.)

You are abusing your position as an unquestioned authority to program your child before they have any natural defenses to help them differentiate fact from fiction. The only reason you'd need to do this, rather than presenting your case after the age of reason, is that a reasonable child is less likely to believe you.

I find the psychology behind this interesting as well as scary. At some level I wonder whether it's fighting the discomfort of your child possibly turning out to believe differently to you. It clearly indicates radical expectations, and not someone who is going to accept their child no matter what.

I have a website here which discusses the issues and terminology surrounding religion and atheism. It's hopefully user friendly to all.
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28-03-2017, 06:58 PM
RE: Questions!
Robvalue Wrote:You are abusing your position as an unquestioned authority to program your child before they have any natural defenses to help them differentiate fact from fiction.
1)Is it parents duty to teach their children right and wrong?

English is my second language.
I AM DEPLORABLE AND IRREDEEMABLE
SHE PERSISTED WE RESISTED
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28-03-2017, 08:18 PM
RE: Questions!
(28-03-2017 06:03 PM)Robvalue Wrote:  Regarding indoctrination, I'd say it is always abuse, or at least equivalent to abuse.

Social conditioning of children is inevitable, since children are not able to understand much at any depth. The question becomes: what kind of indoctrination is harmful? I would answer that any kind which prevents children from absorbing factual information as they grow older. As long as religious concepts can't be squared with scientific understanding, they fit into that category of harmfulness.

However, it's very hard to argue this with people who were themselves harmfully indoctrinated when they were children, for obvious reasons.

Undecided
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28-03-2017, 09:07 PM
RE: Questions!
(28-03-2017 08:18 PM)Jay Vogelsong Wrote:  
(28-03-2017 06:03 PM)Robvalue Wrote:  Regarding indoctrination, I'd say it is always abuse, or at least equivalent to abuse.

Social conditioning of children is inevitable, since children are not able to understand much at any depth. The question becomes: what kind of indoctrination is harmful? I would answer that any kind which prevents children from absorbing factual information as they grow older. As long as religious concepts can't be squared with scientific understanding, they fit into that category of harmfulness.

However, it's very hard to argue this with people who were themselves harmfully indoctrinated when they were children, for obvious reasons.

Undecided

^This. It took me a long time to realize that my parents were victims too. As soon as that lightbulb went off in my head a peace came over me and I stopped being angry at them.

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
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28-03-2017, 09:09 PM
RE: Questions!
(28-03-2017 01:29 PM)Astreja Wrote:  
(28-03-2017 11:22 AM)adey67 Wrote:  I love it when the fuckers say we are all angry and/or traumatized...

I see it as projection on their part. I imagine them coming here and reacting with shock and abject horror as their magical, sacred words fall on stony ground, then getting angry with us for not believing them.

I really don't give a shit how angry they get.

Atheism is NOT a Religion. It's A Personal Relationship With Reality!
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28-03-2017, 10:35 PM
RE: Questions!
(28-03-2017 01:57 PM)morondog Wrote:  
(28-03-2017 01:54 PM)Dark Wanderer Wrote:  Well, that was pretty pathetic. Only answered a handful of questions then bailed. The thread is literally titled "Questions!'. Grow a backbone, for fuck's sake.

Research has indicated that it's possible she may have a life outside the forum Tongue

Don't be silly, who has time for one of those.

"If you keep trying to better yourself that's enough for me. We don't decide which hand we are dealt in life, but we make the decision to play it or fold it" - Nishi Karano Kaze
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28-03-2017, 11:37 PM
RE: Questions!
(28-03-2017 06:58 PM)Alla Wrote:  
Robvalue Wrote:You are abusing your position as an unquestioned authority to program your child before they have any natural defenses to help them differentiate fact from fiction.
1)Is it parents duty to teach their children right and wrong?

> It is their duty to teach their children HOW to think, not WHAT to think.
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28-03-2017, 11:59 PM
RE: Questions!
(28-03-2017 09:07 PM)Full Circle Wrote:  
(28-03-2017 08:18 PM)Jay Vogelsong Wrote:  Social conditioning of children is inevitable, since children are not able to understand much at any depth. The question becomes: what kind of indoctrination is harmful? I would answer that any kind which prevents children from absorbing factual information as they grow older. As long as religious concepts can't be squared with scientific understanding, they fit into that category of harmfulness.

However, it's very hard to argue this with people who were themselves harmfully indoctrinated when they were children, for obvious reasons.

Undecided

^This. It took me a long time to realize that my parents were victims too. As soon as that lightbulb went off in my head a peace came over me and I stopped being angry at them.

Meh, I know this is true, yet I'm still pretty mad at them. The moment they stop actively trying to interfere in my life though I'll stop caring. I'm only mad cause they've caused problems recently for me.

DLJ Wrote:And, yes, the principle of freedom of expression works both ways... if someone starts shit, better shit is the best counter-argument.
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29-03-2017, 12:01 AM
RE: Questions!
(28-03-2017 06:58 PM)Alla Wrote:  
Robvalue Wrote:You are abusing your position as an unquestioned authority to program your child before they have any natural defenses to help them differentiate fact from fiction.
1)Is it parents duty to teach their children right and wrong?

You can teach a child its not ok to hit other kids, without telling them they'll be tortured forever by an all powerful monster who is insecure and will only be kind to them if they always make the monster happy with constant praise and encouragement.

(You can feel free to replace monster with the word god, interesting how that works isn't it?)

DLJ Wrote:And, yes, the principle of freedom of expression works both ways... if someone starts shit, better shit is the best counter-argument.
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