Questions That Led Me to Atheism #1
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13-11-2013, 08:52 PM
RE: Questions That Led Me to Atheism #1
I think when I began doubting, prayer was the first thing to go. It was easy to go through the motions of going to church and singing songs. Prayer required some mental action. And it also felt increasingly silly. I stopped praying regularly before I even realized it. There was a sermon about prayer, or maybe a bible class, and the question was "how often do you pray?" And that's when I thought about it and realized, wow. I haven't prayed in quite some time. Well then I felt guilty of course, and tried to pray more for about a month. That's when the silly part came in.
I didn't always feel silly for praying, there was a time in my life when it felt right to pray, and it felt good. It's hard to describe, but there's this place in my mind that I'd go to when I prayed, and it'd be this big empty space win just me kneeling at the throne of God, casting all my cares on Him and thanking Him for all things good. And then I'd feel freed, like god really did take those burdens from me.
When I think about it now, it's basically like going to a therapist. Just talk out your problems and you feel better. And I can still go to that place in my mind, but now it's more like meditation and calming, and the picture I see is ...wind? I guess? instead of a god on a throne.
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13-11-2013, 08:54 PM
RE: Questions That Led Me to Atheism #1
Also, I was taught that God always answers prayers. Sometimes the answer is No.
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13-11-2013, 10:21 PM
RE: Questions That Led Me to Atheism #1
(13-11-2013 08:30 PM)Impulse Wrote:  Anyway you look at it, prayer makes no sense at all, but countless people cling to it like Linus' blanket.

I too was one of those once. Like Momsurroundedbyboys, I too continue to pray for awhile even after my faith was gone. I was still desperate and still stupid and still clinging to that useless blanket.

Thank goodness (cuz what else would I thank), that's all behind me now and I never pray anymore. And it's funny, I'm still getting through life just fine too - no, actually better.

Then, how do you look at the following and the like?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GetjalW6nfU
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13-11-2013, 10:49 PM
RE: Questions That Led Me to Atheism #1
Was just one question for me once I realized many decades ago now that dualism is completely and utterly untenable with no plausible or even plausibly imaginable mechanism of action. What's this bullshit promise of some postmortem preservation of identity? Yeah, that shit ain't happening. Done. That was it.

As it was in the beginning is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.
And I will show you something different from either
Your shadow at morning striding behind you
Or your shadow at evening rising to meet you;
I will show you fear in a handful of dust.
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13-11-2013, 10:51 PM
RE: Questions That Led Me to Atheism #1
(13-11-2013 10:21 PM)Agile Wrote:  
(13-11-2013 08:30 PM)Impulse Wrote:  Anyway you look at it, prayer makes no sense at all, but countless people cling to it like Linus' blanket.

I too was one of those once. Like Momsurroundedbyboys, I too continue to pray for awhile even after my faith was gone. I was still desperate and still stupid and still clinging to that useless blanket.

Thank goodness (cuz what else would I thank), that's all behind me now and I never pray anymore. And it's funny, I'm still getting through life just fine too - no, actually better.

Then, how do you look at the following and the like?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GetjalW6nfU

Scam.
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13-11-2013, 11:50 PM
RE: Questions That Led Me to Atheism #1
(13-11-2013 10:21 PM)Agile Wrote:  
(13-11-2013 08:30 PM)Impulse Wrote:  Anyway you look at it, prayer makes no sense at all, but countless people cling to it like Linus' blanket.

I too was one of those once. Like Momsurroundedbyboys, I too continue to pray for awhile even after my faith was gone. I was still desperate and still stupid and still clinging to that useless blanket.

Thank goodness (cuz what else would I thank), that's all behind me now and I never pray anymore. And it's funny, I'm still getting through life just fine too - no, actually better.

Then, how do you look at the following and the like?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GetjalW6nfU
A nonexistent god can't answer prayer.

"Religion has caused more misery to all of mankind in every stage of human history than any other single idea." --Madalyn Murray O'Hair
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14-11-2013, 02:26 AM
RE: Questions That Led Me to Atheism #1
(13-11-2013 10:21 PM)Agile Wrote:  
(13-11-2013 08:30 PM)Impulse Wrote:  Anyway you look at it, prayer makes no sense at all, but countless people cling to it like Linus' blanket.

I too was one of those once. Like Momsurroundedbyboys, I too continue to pray for awhile even after my faith was gone. I was still desperate and still stupid and still clinging to that useless blanket.

Thank goodness (cuz what else would I thank), that's all behind me now and I never pray anymore. And it's funny, I'm still getting through life just fine too - no, actually better.

Then, how do you look at the following and the like?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GetjalW6nfU

I wonder why these 'miracles' never occur in first world countries with documentation (police, hospital, and news reports), video, and the reputations of certified professional medical personal and hospitals on the line. Nope, they only ever seem to happen off camera, far away, and with the very worst evidence (word of mouth, eye witness testimony).

Want to know how hard it would have been to forge that x-ray negative? About as hard as using a little tape to attach some pieces of metal or shrapnel (maybe even fired bullets from a practice range) to the outside of a leg, then take an x-ray shot of that. There you go, now you have 'proof' that there was a 'ton' of something in someone's leg. It it proof that there were 50 bullets in that guy's leg and he was miraculously healed by the power of God/Jesus? Nope.

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14-11-2013, 01:49 PM
RE: Questions That Led Me to Atheism #1
(13-11-2013 10:38 AM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  I apologize to you that you were misled by being raised on the path of emotionalism. There's nothing wrong with applying reason to faith. If you were to become born again, you would receive the Spirit of God inside you, and you would have an inner witness to the reality of Christ incarnate inside you. That's different than praying and feeling something. That's the kind of experience that may come without any prayer whatsoever.

I'm going to have to disagree with you. The whole reason I stopped believing was because I didn't feel anything, and couldn't, despite praying about it for two years. Attaching this type of faith-based notions of "the Spirit of God inside you", it basically is a non-falsifiable way to set up two things:

1) Unassailable "proof" that a person's belief is genuine, even if it lacks any external evidence, and

2) A great No True Scotsman way out for dealing with people like me who say they really tried and got nothing. You can simply say "I didn't try hard enough" or say it must be my fault in some other (unstated) way.

I can see why that type of explanation is much more comforting to a believer, but it's absolutely baseless and involves vilifying people who really wanted to believe, but couldn't.
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14-11-2013, 11:44 PM
RE: Questions That Led Me to Atheism #1
Most of the time I can let this kind of post slide, or at least some of the contents, but not tonight. I have a dangerously low tolerance level for stupid bullshit right now.

(13-11-2013 10:38 AM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  May I be frank/blunt with you?

I am going to be frank with you. I don't think you wrote this because you really care about my feelings. I think you wrote it because you want to sound like the kind of person who would be fair and polite.

If you really intended to ask my permission to speak freely, you would have ended the post here.

The fact that you decided to put this opener in your comment at all tells me that somewhere inside of you, you are afraid of what I might say. You are afraid to rile me, in case I turn out to be more hostile than you can handle.

Who ever asks this kind of question unless they are worried about someone being offended by what they are about to say?

(13-11-2013 10:38 AM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  How is any of your post rooted in the facts of the Bible and not mere emotionalism?

None of my post, nor any post that I have ever made, is concerned with "facts of the Bible". Several are concerned with the lack of facts in the Bible.

(13-11-2013 10:38 AM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  most Christians have never had an audible answer to prayer or seen visions. We know our value, His revealed will, and etc. based on the scriptures.

This is precisely my point. No one actually talks to God. No one has a real relationship with a God. No once communicates with a God. We all know that. The best we can do is "I feel a good fuzzy feeling" when I follow what my pastor says. Is this really the best God can do? If I were him, I would be insulted.

(13-11-2013 10:38 AM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  I apologize to you that you were misled by being raised on the path of emotionalism.

For starters, you have no basis for any kind of apology at all. You did nothing to me.

I know that you know that. You know that I know that. You aren't interested in being gracious and apologetic. You are interested in letting me know that you pity me. Poor baby me for being confused as a child with "mere emotionalism".

You have an excessive level of arrogantly displayed ego, even if you couch it well within words that sound plausible enough to be intelligent rhetoric.

You were not around to judge my childhood. You know even less about it than you have evidence for your faith. I hope patronizing me is amusing to you. At least then they're would be some purpose for someone in this kind of statement.

(13-11-2013 10:38 AM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  There's nothing wrong with applying reason to faith.

If you had applied reason to your faith, we wouldn't be having this discussion. The fact that you post here, and haven't done so, makes you look more than just accidentally ignorant.

(13-11-2013 10:38 AM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  If you were to become born again, you would receive the Spirit of God inside you, and you would have an inner witness to the reality of Christ incarnate inside you. That's different than praying and feeling something.

It isn't different from an acid trip however. I bet I could get you to feel the "spirit of God" with a good hit.

I am beyond sick of pretending that people like you have some kind of valid, opposite parallel opinion to mine. You don't. You are a crazy person who believes a dead man from thousands of years ago will inhabit his body incarnate as a "spirit".

You=Fucking Insane

There is not nice way to tell you.

Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, just as it is the spirit of a spiritless situation. The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness.

-Karl Marx
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15-11-2013, 12:31 AM
RE: Questions That Led Me to Atheism #1
(14-11-2013 11:44 PM)Dark Phoenix Wrote:  Most of the time I can let this kind of post slide, or at least some of the contents, but not tonight. I have a dangerously low tolerance level for stupid bullshit right now.

(13-11-2013 10:38 AM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  May I be frank/blunt with you?

I am going to be frank with you. I don't think you wrote this because you really care about my feelings. I think you wrote it because you want to sound like the kind of person who would be fair and polite.

If you really intended to ask my permission to speak freely, you would have ended the post here.

The fact that you decided to put this opener in your comment at all tells me that somewhere inside of you, you are afraid of what I might say. You are afraid to rile me, in case I turn out to be more hostile than you can handle.

Who ever asks this kind of question unless they are worried about someone being offended by what they are about to say?

(13-11-2013 10:38 AM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  How is any of your post rooted in the facts of the Bible and not mere emotionalism?

None of my post, nor any post that I have ever made, is concerned with "facts of the Bible". Several are concerned with the lack of facts in the Bible.

(13-11-2013 10:38 AM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  most Christians have never had an audible answer to prayer or seen visions. We know our value, His revealed will, and etc. based on the scriptures.

This is precisely my point. No one actually talks to God. No one has a real relationship with a God. No once communicates with a God. We all know that. The best we can do is "I feel a good fuzzy feeling" when I follow what my pastor says. Is this really the best God can do? If I were him, I would be insulted.

(13-11-2013 10:38 AM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  I apologize to you that you were misled by being raised on the path of emotionalism.

For starters, you have no basis for any kind of apology at all. You did nothing to me.

I know that you know that. You know that I know that. You aren't interested in being gracious and apologetic. You are interested in letting me know that you pity me. Poor baby me for being confused as a child with "mere emotionalism".

You have an excessive level of arrogantly displayed ego, even if you couch it well within words that sound plausible enough to be intelligent rhetoric.

You were not around to judge my childhood. You know even less about it than you have evidence for your faith. I hope patronizing me is amusing to you. At least then they're would be some purpose for someone in this kind of statement.

(13-11-2013 10:38 AM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  There's nothing wrong with applying reason to faith.

If you had applied reason to your faith, we wouldn't be having this discussion. The fact that you post here, and haven't done so, makes you look more than just accidentally ignorant.

(13-11-2013 10:38 AM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  If you were to become born again, you would receive the Spirit of God inside you, and you would have an inner witness to the reality of Christ incarnate inside you. That's different than praying and feeling something.

It isn't different from an acid trip however. I bet I could get you to feel the "spirit of God" with a good hit.

I am beyond sick of pretending that people like you have some kind of valid, opposite parallel opinion to mine. You don't. You are a crazy person who believes a dead man from thousands of years ago will inhabit his body incarnate as a "spirit".

You=Fucking Insane

There is not nice way to tell you.

So I see you've met our resident, and supremely ignorant, fundy bridge troll... Drinking Beverage

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