Questions That Led Me to Atheism #2
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23-01-2014, 02:29 PM
RE: Questions That Led Me to Atheism #2
(23-01-2014 01:18 PM)docskeptic Wrote:  Anidominus,
For a theist you sure picked an odd name. It appears to be a compound of two Latin words (the first is a plural). I'll let you figure out which two.

Don't be offended and welcome to the forum!

Doc

Well, regardless of what it means I picked it at random 20 years ago.

I've looked up the meaning before because some said it was a weird name but I have forgotten what I've found. I Just did a search and Dominus means God or Lord and Ani means cuckoo bird. lol so I guess Im the God of the Crazy Birds. lol It doesn't bother me though. Its a name that's always available no matter where I go.
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23-01-2014, 02:34 PM
RE: Questions That Led Me to Atheism #2
Anidominus,
OK. That's a much better explanation than what I expected! Care to tell us something about yourself? What's your faith? Why are you here? Once again, welcome.

Doc
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23-01-2014, 02:52 PM
RE: Questions That Led Me to Atheism #2
(23-01-2014 02:07 PM)Dark Phoenix Wrote:  Nice to meet you. Welcome to the forum.

(23-01-2014 12:34 PM)anidominus Wrote:  I have no idea where you get any of this.

Are you interested in understand my perspective or my story?

Quote:There are far more laws in the US government governing your behavior than what's in the bible and you could go to Jail for violating any number of them.

Personally, I see a profound difference between human governments, and supposed celestial ones. Although my government will restrict my behavior through punishment, there is no threat of punishment which will last for all of eternity beyond the grave. Under my current government I am protected against "cruel and unusual punishment". Not so with god. Torture by fire, or at the very least by an eternity of regret, is made available to me as a direct consequence of resisting his will. As often occurs, individuals or groups of citizens decide to resist certain governments and their laws on the basis that their laws are unjust. Mere humans as they are, governments can be resisted, and although not overly likely, even defeated and destroyed. Christianity offers no such option, since god is omnipotent and will remain regardless of our opinions about his laws.

God's government is by definition, slavery for all, and personal freedom for none. We are presented with the non-choice between endless punishment and compliance. Thus the celestial is totalitarian, far beyond that of any government ever to exist upon the earth, save perhaps North Korea.

Quote: Being a Christian is one step up from being an atheist.

That is not my experience, although I believe you when you say it is yours. I am far happier as an Atheist than I ever was as a Christian. It certainly feels like a step up. If you are genuinely happy as a Christian, all power to you.

Quote: Its the easiest thing on earth.

In my opinion, the ease of an activity does not always make it right for me.


Quote: literally all the rules help you avoid doing stupid stuff in your life or do you think Murder, theft, lying, sex before marriage, envy and all those things works positive wonders for a society?

I think murder and theft are universally considered immoral all around the world, and always have been. I don't even think you need Christianity to make that the case, since these things are obviously harmful to any society, regardless of their religion. I think these prohibitions likely pre-date Christianity. We can safely include perjury among these crimes.

As far as deception, I learned early on that it is not always immoral. I lied to my father many times, in order to protect my mother from him. I was then engaged in the obviously moral act of protecting my innocent mother from unjust abuse. There are countless other situations or circumstances in which lying is not only moral, but also necessary.

In my own experience, sexual laws within most religions are not based on actual morality. They are based on a basic revulsion and distrust of one's innate sexuality. To discover any form of a pleasurable and loving sex act, is to find a fearsome ban upon it. Christianity seems unclear as to whether or not it believes sex is dirty and base, or wonderful and sacred. The emphasis is placed upon obedience and long suffering, rather than participating in safe sexual activity by avoiding diseases as well as undesirable or dangerous pregnancies. In fact, many churches often take a stand against medical advances which would eliminate or severely curtail the progress of venereal disease. They do this with the supposed moral complaint that those advances would rid us of "god's natural punishment" for our disobedience. They betray their lack of real morality by being unconcerned with actual suffering, while being ultra-concerned with the harmless and private sexual lives of others.

I think envy is unwise to prohibit, since it directly affects the open market. Why bother improving your life if you have no desire for the items available to you that would improve it? Why buy a good car or house if you are forbidden to desire them? This has nothing to do with morality, and is bad for growth and prosperity to boot.

I do not think that all of the rules within Christianity help people to avoid stupid mistakes. Some of them are stupid to begin with. The prohibition of eating seafood or pork, or the mandate for women to be silent and submissive are obvious examples.

Quote:Name me something an atheist would want to do that I can't do as a Christian?

An Atheist might wish to question the validity of the holy ghost. They may wish to doubt it, and search for evidence of it. Can you do that?

Quote: You may say that Christians have to tithe money. No we don't. We do because we want to because we want to financially grow the kingdom. Some Christians may believe they have to tithe but that requirement was for the Jews. I give to God for the same reason Abel and Abraham gave, neither of whom was under the law.

Please understand, when I talk about tithing, I am speaking from my own private experience. In my denomination of Christianity growing up, we payed tithing. We were taught that not doing so would bar us from heaven. I know this is not true of every Christian.

I think I do understand to a degree your story. To put it as simply as I can, You were raised a "Insert Domination Here" but you weren't raised a Christian. But that's very common. I'm sorry you had to go through that.

As it relates to God's rules and his punishment. Assuming your viewpoint of God, he's rules, laws, and punish are as you say, not saying I agree with your statements in whole because I don't, how is not believing in God going to make your eternal plight better? Not believing isn't going to make the punishment not happen. This line of thinking I just don't understand.

The point regarding sex out side of wed-lock is that it has indirectly produced an increase in the amount of crime/STD's because no matter how much you preach safe sex or whatever else, chances are not everyone will do that and you'll have these kinds of problems. To clarify, children born without fathers in the home generally commit more crimes according to FBI data.

Many of those things mention didn't have anything to do with sex so I'll just skip those. There is nothing in the bible that says prevent the development of medical devices.

Instead of lying I should have said, "Baring false witness" which is the more accurate term. I agree with the fact that not all lying is sinful.

I can debate anything. I admit I didn't to go in that direction because what atheist wants to spend life debating the validity of the Holy Ghost. I was generally referring to things people do in life. So to me, at least at this point, it kind of proves my point until something else comes up.
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23-01-2014, 03:00 PM
RE: Questions That Led Me to Atheism #2
(23-01-2014 02:34 PM)docskeptic Wrote:  Anidominus,
OK. That's a much better explanation than what I expected! Care to tell us something about yourself? What's your faith? Why are you here? Once again, welcome.

Doc

My faith is Christianity, none Religious. I do attend a Lutheran Church, 25yrs, in which I am a member of its leadership. I claim Lutheran as my religion only for social and legal purposes but otherwise I have no use for it.

I like debating things. I like debating atheist. I haven't debated any topic in a long time which has caused sluggishness in the brain.
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23-01-2014, 03:04 PM
RE: Questions That Led Me to Atheism #2
(15-01-2014 12:11 AM)Dark Phoenix Wrote:  2. If God created me with free will, why does he insist on controlling my life after all?
From my earliest years I was absolutely certain that I was not free in any sense. Being a child is not free. Your parents dictate everything.
WOW! You describe your parents like they are pure evil. My atheist parents were the same way. They dictated me what to do. But I appreciate it now. They did what they thought is the best for me. They wanted to protect me. Because they love me. I hope your parents wanted to protect you because they love you.
(15-01-2014 12:11 AM)Dark Phoenix Wrote:  I couldn't understand why my teachers at church kept telling me that God had given me my "Freedom". God seemed to represent the captivity of childhood without the possibility of growing up one day.
Children, children. I am glad you have learned that you can have your freedom when you become a BIG BOY.

(15-01-2014 12:11 AM)Dark Phoenix Wrote:  I knew instinctively that having freedom to do only a select group of things, is not freedom at all. It is an existence at the mercy of he who creates the conditions. To call it freedom is a ridiculous masquerade.
I didn't like the implications of God being necessary to grant me my freedom to begin with. This automatically placed God in a dominant position over me, free to impose his will upon my life regardless of my own desires. Were this situation to be true, and instead of God a man ruled over me, it would be considered justice to escape or resist him by any means necessary. Slavery is decried as a crime of intense seriousness and lack of human empathy, except for when the taskmaster is divine.
WOW! Was this your "testimony" you were telling me about?
Yes, it was quite a testimony. Now I know why you left Church. Thanks for honestly explaining it.
P.S. I totally understand you. I think if I was in your position I would do the same thing you did.
I wish you only the best in your life.
P.S. How old were you when you left Church?

English is not my native language.
that awkward moment between the Premortal Existence and your Resurrection
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23-01-2014, 03:36 PM
RE: Questions That Led Me to Atheism #2
(23-01-2014 02:52 PM)anidominus Wrote:  I think I do understand to a degree your story. To put it as simply as I can, You were raised a "Insert Domination Here" but you weren't raised a Christian. But that's very common. I'm sorry you had to go through that.

Honestly, you have some serious balls here. Where did you happen upon the authority to speak for the entirety of Christianity? It is common knowledge that practically every denomination is out of agreement with others on at least one topic. This doesn't give anyone the right to claim ownership of the concept of Christianity. No doubt I could find someone willing to say the same of you, that you are not a Christian. Would that make you less of a follower of Christ?

Quote: As it relates to God's rules and his punishment. Assuming your viewpoint of God, he's rules, laws, and punish are as you say, not saying I agree with your statements in whole because I don't, how is not believing in God going to make your eternal plight better? Not believing isn't going to make the punishment not happen. This line of thinking I just don't understand.

This is a great question. I wish more theists asked questions like this. I was willing to accept that my viewpoint of god didn't make him less or more existent. Either he was, or he was not. I decided to investigate, and if I could, discover the truth of his existence. If you stick around here long enough, you will encounter all the arguments for both sides that I did. I discovered that god, although not able to be proven absolutely non-existent, is as likely of being real as Santa Clause, or Zeus. He is a myth, made by men. Proofs be damned, there wasn't even a shred of real evidence that he existed, and there still isn't. In summary, I don't worry about damnation because I literally do not think god is real.

Let me help you put it in perspective, if I can. As a Christian, you are condemned to hell for all eternity by Islam. If it turns out you are wrong, and Allah is king, you are screwed, but I doubt you stay up late every night worrying about the torments of Muslim hell do you? I can hazard a guess that you don't, because you don't believe that Allah is literally existent. You probably assume that he is a myth, made up by man. If I am being accurate, and if not please correct me, you know exactly what it is like to be an Atheist with respect to Islam.

Quote:I can debate anything. I admit I didn't to go in that direction because what atheist wants to spend life debating the validity of the Holy Ghost. I was generally referring to things people do in life. So to me, at least at this point, it kind of proves my point until something else comes up.

I can't speak for all Atheists, but I can tell you that my one desire is not to spend my life debating the validity of the holy ghost. My point was that you are not even capable of questioning the holy ghost, since to do so is an unforgivable sin.

Mark 3 28:29 "Verily I say unto you, All sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and blasphemies wherewith soever they shall blaspheme: But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation"

Give me one good explanation as to how your point has been proven on this subject. What exactly have you managed to explain?

Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, just as it is the spirit of a spiritless situation. The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness.

-Karl Marx
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23-01-2014, 03:47 PM
RE: Questions That Led Me to Atheism #2
(23-01-2014 03:04 PM)Alla Wrote:  WOW! You describe your parents like they are pure evil. My atheist parents were the same way. They dictated me what to do. But I appreciate it now. They did what they thought is the best for me. They wanted to protect me. Because they love me. I hope your parents wanted to protect you because they love you.

My parents were not evil, and I never said they were. You said that. You are the all time champion of putting words into other people's mouths. Everyone here understands a parent, what they do, and that they love their children. Is there any better response than, duh? In true Alla style, you missed the main point completely, which was that god is an eternal parent, which makes us eternally children, which by definition is not freedom in any sense. We never grow up, and god never dies.

Quote:Children, children. I am glad you have learned that you can have your freedom when you become a BIG BOY.

You are incredibly disrespectful. Why should I bother to treat you with tact or respect, or even allow you to engage in discussion with me? Your lack of maturity says everything we need to know about you.

Quote:WOW! Was this your "testimony" you were telling me about? Yes, it was quite a testimony. Now I know why you left Church. Thanks for honestly explaining it. P.S. I totally understand you. I think if I was in your position I would do the same thing you did. I wish you only the best in your life.

That was certainly not an example of my testimony. You are so incredibly dense, that stupid doesn't quite cut it. Not only do you not understand me, but I doubt you understand even 50% of what you read on this forum. You have never been in my position, so you can shove what you would do up your ignorant ass. You belong in a 5th grade reading room, not here. Now go away, and let the adults do the big talking.

Quote:P.S. How old were you when you left Church?

None of your fucking business.

Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, just as it is the spirit of a spiritless situation. The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness.

-Karl Marx
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23-01-2014, 03:49 PM
RE: Questions That Led Me to Atheism #2
(23-01-2014 03:04 PM)Alla Wrote:  My atheist parents were the same way. They dictated me what to do.


Playing at a pop, internet psychologist and purely unqualified...........this statement (which you've not before revealed) tells me quite a bit.

When I want your opinion I'll read your entrails.
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23-01-2014, 03:55 PM
RE: Questions That Led Me to Atheism #2
(23-01-2014 03:49 PM)WitchSabrina Wrote:  
(23-01-2014 03:04 PM)Alla Wrote:  My atheist parents were the same way. They dictated me what to do.


Playing at a pop, internet psychologist and purely unqualified...........this statement (which you've not before revealed) tells me quite a bit.

I revealed before that I was raised an Atheist. I told about my father who was scientist and that I was taught in school that religion is an opium for the people.

English is not my native language.
that awkward moment between the Premortal Existence and your Resurrection
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23-01-2014, 04:13 PM
RE: Questions That Led Me to Atheism #2
(23-01-2014 03:47 PM)Dark Phoenix Wrote:  My parents were not evil, and I never said they were. You said that.
No, I didn't say that. I said that you describe them the way like they are evil.
Dictators.
(23-01-2014 03:47 PM)Dark Phoenix Wrote:  You are the all time champion of putting words into other people's mouths.
No, I didn't to this.


(23-01-2014 03:47 PM)Dark Phoenix Wrote:  Everyone here understands a parent, what they do, and that they love their children. Is there any better response than, duh? In true Alla style, you missed the main point completely, which was that god is an eternal parent, which makes us eternally children, which by definition is not freedom in any sense. We never grow up, and god never dies.
You don't know the Gospel then. According to the Gospel we grow up when we become All-knowing like Him and ALL- mighty like Him. When we become PERFECT we growing-ups.
but when you don't know every consequence of every action you are like little child. Little children do NOT know every consequence of every action/choice

(23-01-2014 03:47 PM)Dark Phoenix Wrote:  You are incredibly disrespectful. Why should I bother to treat you with tact or respect, or even allow you to engage in discussion with me? Your lack of maturity says everything we need to know about you.
I respect you.

(23-01-2014 03:47 PM)Dark Phoenix Wrote:  That was certainly not an example of my testimony. You are so incredibly dense, that stupid doesn't quite cut it.
This is disrespect. I don't call you names. You do.

(23-01-2014 03:47 PM)Dark Phoenix Wrote:  Not only do you not understand me, but I doubt you understand even 50% of what you read on this forum.
You have never been in my position, so you can shove what you would do up your ignorant ass. You belong in a 5th grade reading room, not here. Now go away, and let the adults do the big talking.
very kind of you.

(23-01-2014 03:47 PM)Dark Phoenix Wrote:  ALLATongue.S. How old were you when you left Church?

None of your fucking business.
OK. you know how to show respect. I can learn a lot from you.
Before I was Mormon I was cussing. I don't do it any more. I want to be better then I was before, you like to be lower then you were before.

English is not my native language.
that awkward moment between the Premortal Existence and your Resurrection
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