Questions That Led Me to Atheism #2
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24-01-2014, 03:46 PM
RE: Questions That Led Me to Atheism #2
Anidominus,
Just a friendly word of advice. You are making yourself look very foolish with all your nonsensical statements. This is not helping your cause of "debating atheists" and makes your religion looks even more pathetic. Please consider quitting now.
Regards,

Doc
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24-01-2014, 04:02 PM
RE: Questions That Led Me to Atheism #2
(24-01-2014 03:40 PM)anidominus Wrote:  
(24-01-2014 03:32 PM)Chas Wrote:  And you need to be sliced with Occam's razor. Drinking Beverage

You clearly do not understand either science or critical thinking. Science is all about questioning; we are, in fact, taught to question E = mc².

You do question e-mc2? Must be a real short session. lol In all the things I've read and watched I've never seen that questioned. I have seen them deal with theories (like for example string theory) that put e=mc2 (not saying string theory does) in to question but never a serious discussion about the formula.

And what about the scientific method? They question that as well? Just asking. lol

There are no sacred truths in science, everything is open to revision.

The scientific method is merely the manner in which to question nature and let the results speak for themselves. We use it because it works.

Philosophers may question the scientific method. Scientists are usually too busy doing science to bother.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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24-01-2014, 11:09 PM
RE: Questions That Led Me to Atheism #2
(24-01-2014 12:59 PM)anidominus Wrote:  Believe Jesus Christ died on the cross for your sins and rose again in 3 days.
Have a Heart this is repentant, Patient, charitably, merciful, Forgiving, and seeks Justice.
Trust God
Understand the 10 commandments.
partake in communion at least once.

this is about as simple as it gets. its not hard. and its not like God expects you to be perfect with these.

Do you mean to say that one is a Christian only when they succeed in repenting, being patient, being charitable and so forth? Do you mean to say that on is a Christian only when one is continually striving to do this?

Does one merely need to understand the ten commandments in order to be a Christian, or does one need to obey them?

I noticed you did not mention the bible. Is the bible important to being a Christian?

Quote:My point was that you went about it in such a way that it guaranteed failure.

Certainly. In fact, my point is that by definition it is guaranteed to failure. In my opinion, when you examine the idea of god closely with a skeptical attitude, as I and many others have done, you are left with the only kind of belief in god that isn't disprovable, a nebulous one devoid of any meaning.

Quote: I don't even know what claims Allah makes. Really, I just don't care about Islam. Does Allah lay claim to healing the blind?

I am surprised by your attitude towards Islam. Why do you not even know what they claim? Why is Islam not even a remote interest of yours?

Have you never even considered that you might belong to the wrong religion, and that you might be destined to spend an eternity in hell because of your ignorance?

Quote:How do you deal with people who ignore the proof? You do realize there are people who still don't believe we went to the moon.

This is a really good point. I don't actually have a permanent solution for this problem. Anybody can point out that human beings have a very obvious tendency to be wrong about many different things a great deal of the time. This is why is prefer a skeptical position to everything. Holding a position of skepticism by default reminds me to always check why I know what I claim to know.

I often notice that there is a deep difference in the quality of evidence presented on either side of religious arguments in particular. I often find the religious indulging in superstitious nonsense, such as claiming to discover lost household items as a result of prayer, which is easily, and much more sanely, explainable by the natural order. The most common issue of evidence, in my opinion, is the religious' insistence that faith constitutes evidence. I think you will find that most Atheists don't argue that they are denying proof. They would likely argue that they are dismissing what is not actually evidence at all.


Quote: I would never ask someone to prove the existence of fairies. A) I don't care. If that floats your boat, fine with me. B) If they do exists and can do whatever it is they claim there is nothing I can do to stop them. Why bother? C) If they don't exists I still have to deal with mind of man even as if he never claimed to believe in fairies. So basically its a conversation I wouldn't have.

Watch what happens when I replace "fairies" in your response with "god".

Quote: I would never ask someone to prove the existence of god. A) I don't care. If that floats your boat, fine with me. B) If god does exists and can do whatever it is he claims there is nothing I can do to stop them. Why bother? C) If he doesn't exist I still have to deal with mind of man even as if he never claimed to believe in god. So basically its a conversation I wouldn't have.

Putting aside the fact that my mention of fairies was to make a rhetorical point, I think you manage to have made my point for me. Neither you nor I can disprove the existence of fairies. It simply cannot be done, yet no one would ever argue, sanely, that we ought to build our lives around such a myth. Yet, I must listen to endless recitations of that exact argument on behalf of god. If merely being able to disprove something makes it real automatically, why do we not believe in goblins, devils, genies, fairies, Santa, etc.. ?

Quote:This is complete BS but we'll just agree to disagree. Your religion may have but Christianity isn't about that.

In your opinion, does Christianity, the core of Christianity mind you, encourage or even allow questioning whether or not Jesus Christ actually died on the cross and rose from the dead three days later?

Quote:Do they do this with the "scientific method"? Meaning are scientist taught to question this method? Are scientist taught to question E=MC2? You don't promote the question of things that have been validated. Either through the lab or faith. People just don't do that. Its not a matter of deception, its just not done.

Honestly, I don't think you understand the scientific method when you say that conclusions are not questioned and examined. You don't strike me as being the kind of person who would be ignorant on this subject. Scientific conclusions are subject to such an incredible bombardment of criticism and opposing and competing theories, that a great deal of them never make it off the ground, let alone into a textbook. If it does manage to survive this, and make it into said textbook, it will have already proven itself through making accurate predictions which can be measured for validity.

Contrast that to the epileptic "revelations" of illiterate desert individuals. Who is around to criticize them without being killed?

Quote: When you blaspheme against the Holy Spirit what you are actually doing is 1) affirming you believe the Holy Spirit which can only be verified via the heart which no man can do. 2) Then turning your back on the Holy Spirit, thus God, and calling him a liar to his face which is very stupid considering you already verified his presence. This is the same reason it makes no point in praying for Satan. He's a blasphemer.

Honestly, when Atheists do this they usually see it as a meaningless statement with the bonus side effect of making a provocative point. It is done mockingly in an effort to ridicule what we find so ridiculous, not done in good faith, believing in it all.

Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, just as it is the spirit of a spiritless situation. The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness.

-Karl Marx
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25-01-2014, 07:31 PM
RE: Questions That Led Me to Atheism #2
(24-01-2014 03:46 PM)docskeptic Wrote:  Anidominus,
Just a friendly word of advice. You are making yourself look very foolish with all your nonsensical statements. This is not helping your cause of "debating atheists" and makes your religion looks even more pathetic. Please consider quitting now.
Regards,

Doc

When I want your advice, I'll give it to you.
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25-01-2014, 08:06 PM
RE: Questions That Led Me to Atheism #2
Shit, Doc, he told you.
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25-01-2014, 08:09 PM
RE: Questions That Led Me to Atheism #2
(15-01-2014 12:11 AM)Dark Phoenix Wrote:  I knew instinctively that having freedom to do only a select group of things, is not freedom at all. It is an existence at the mercy of he who creates the conditions. To call it freedom is a ridiculous masquerade.
Oh! No wonder nothing special happen when you prayed.
(15-01-2014 12:11 AM)Dark Phoenix Wrote:  I didn't like the implications of God being necessary to grant me my freedom to begin with. This automatically placed God in a dominant position over me, free to impose his will upon my life regardless of my own desires. Were this situation to be true, and instead of God a man ruled over me, it would be considered justice to escape or resist him by any means necessary. Slavery is decried as a crime of intense seriousness and lack of human empathy, except for when the taskmaster is divine.
Oh! Who wants to listen to God during the prayer with this kind of feelings or thoughts? Who will hear the Holy Ghost with this kind of feelings and thoughts? Would God send the Holy Ghost to testify to someone who has this kind of feelings and thoughts?

(15-01-2014 12:11 AM)Dark Phoenix Wrote:  God has a say in absolutely everything when it comes to the devout. You must surrender your diet, sex life, wallet, and free time unconditionally. You may not think for yourself, rather you must accept the decided doctrine of the church. You must even surrender the last sacred sanctuary of your mind, in the form of torturing yourself with supposedly "dirty thoughts". You are judged not only for your actions, but for the very thoughts, most of which are involuntary and natural, that enter your mind. What greater expression of slavery can exist?
Oh! No wonder you had no special experience during the prayers.

(15-01-2014 12:11 AM)Dark Phoenix Wrote:  As a teenager I observed the outside world with great jealousy.
Who wants to hear God with these kind of feelings and desires?


(15-01-2014 12:11 AM)Dark Phoenix Wrote:  I had such envy for all the people I saw living their lives according to their own desires and values.
Yes, who wants to hear God during the prayer with this kind of feelings and desires? Who can have testimony of the Holy Ghost with this kind of feelings and desires?
I think nobody.

English is not my native language.
that awkward moment between the Premortal Existence and your Resurrection
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25-01-2014, 08:26 PM
RE: Questions That Led Me to Atheism #2
(24-01-2014 04:02 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(24-01-2014 03:40 PM)anidominus Wrote:  You do question e-mc2? Must be a real short session. lol In all the things I've read and watched I've never seen that questioned. I have seen them deal with theories (like for example string theory) that put e=mc2 (not saying string theory does) in to question but never a serious discussion about the formula.

And what about the scientific method? They question that as well? Just asking. lol

There are no sacred truths in science, everything is open to revision.

The scientific method is merely the manner in which to question nature and let the results speak for themselves. We use it because it works.

PhiloSOPHISTS may question the scientific method. Scientists are usually too busy doing science to bother.


fixed that for ya.

It's Special Pleadings all the way down!


Magic Talking Snakes STFU -- revenantx77


You can't have your special pleading and eat it too. -- WillHop
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25-01-2014, 08:28 PM
RE: Questions That Led Me to Atheism #2
(25-01-2014 08:09 PM)Alla Wrote:  Oh! No wonder nothing special happen when you prayed.

Oh! Who wants to listen to God during the prayer with this kind of feelings or thoughts? Who will hear the Holy Ghost with this kind of feelings and thoughts? Would God send the Holy Ghost to testify to someone who has this kind of feelings and thoughts?

Oh! No wonder you had no special experience during the prayers.

Who wants to hear God with these kind of feelings and desires?

Yes, who wants to hear God during the prayer with this kind of feelings and desires? Who can have testimony of the Holy Ghost with this kind of feelings and desires?
I think nobody.

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Onward, my faithful steed!
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25-01-2014, 08:39 PM
RE: Questions That Led Me to Atheism #2
(24-01-2014 11:09 PM)Dark Phoenix Wrote:  Do you mean to say that one is a Christian only when they succeed in repenting, being patient, being charitable and so forth? Do you mean to say that on is a Christian only when one is continually striving to do this?

Does one merely need to understand the ten commandments in order to be a Christian, or does one need to obey them?

I noticed you did not mention the bible. Is the bible important to being a Christian?

If you are a Christian you will continually strive for this but there are no perfect people and different people are at different "levels" of the Christian development.

If you don't understand the Ten Commandments then accepting Jesus wouldn't even matter to you. Why would you need a Savior if you don't believe you have the problem he is saving you from?

Why would you believe in Jesus and not believe in the Bible since that's pretty much the only source of his life?

Quote:Certainly. In fact, my point is that by definition it is guaranteed to failure. In my opinion, when you examine the idea of god closely with a skeptical attitude, as I and many others have done, you are left with the only kind of belief in god that isn't disprovable, a nebulous one devoid of any meaning.

Why know you won't find water in the desert then go there looking for water then when you don't find it claim water doesn't exist anywhere?

Quote:I am surprised by your attitude towards Islam. Why do you not even know what they claim? Why is Islam not even a remote interest of yours?

Have you never even considered that you might belong to the wrong religion, and that you might be destined to spend an eternity in hell because of your ignorance?

When you find a good woman you don't need another one. No point in chasing another skirt tail if you're happy with the one you have.

No, why would I? I know Yahweh is God. The Force is strong in me. lol

Quote:Watch what happens when I replace "fairies" in your response with "god".

I would never ask someone to prove the existence of god. A) I don't care. If that floats your boat, fine with me. B) If god does exists and can do whatever it is he claims there is nothing I can do to stop them. Why bother? C) If he doesn't exist I still have to deal with mind of man even as if he never claimed to believe in god. So basically its a conversation I wouldn't have.

Nothing happened. I'm not going to waste my time putting up a board called "The Thinking Christian" where I point out all the flaws of Islam which makes me wonder why in the hell are atheist so obsessed with something they don't believe in.

Quote:Putting aside the fact that my mention of fairies was to make a rhetorical point, I think you manage to have made my point for me.

Ok

Quote:Neither you nor I can disprove the existence of fairies. It simply cannot be done,

There is a difference between knowing I can't disprove something and being indifferent to it in the first place. To bother trying to disprove it means I care. I don't.

Quote:yet no one would ever argue, sanely, that we ought to build our lives around such a myth.

What's the difference? A god that doesn't exists or fairy that doesn't exists? Its all the same. If Allah was imaged to look like Tinkerbell would there be fewer people involved in Islam? I doubt it.

Quote:Yet, I must listen to endless recitations of that exact argument on behalf of god. If merely {not?} being able to disprove something makes it real automatically, why do we not believe in goblins, devils, genies, fairies, Santa, etc.. ?

Minus the Devil cause Yahweh says he exist the answer is No Demonstrated Power. Where is the book of Santa? Where is the book of fairies? What is the book of goblins? What are their claims. Even Satan has a book. If forgot the name. "Do as thou wilt" I think is the name of it.

Quote:In your opinion, does Christianity, the core of Christianity mind you, encourage or even allow questioning whether or not Jesus Christ actually died on the cross and rose from the dead three days later?

That's like questioning whether your car is running when its running. If you have doubts about that you'll never accept him in the first place.

I think I understand your view point though. You were raised in a family of believers and by default it was expected of you to believe. One of the things you can not do is force people to believe in Jesus. Jesus looks at the heart. He doesn't look at how much money you give or how often you go to church or sing songs.

Faith is not an easy thing it must be nurtured, grown, and kept. Its possible no one knew how to nurture whatever faith you had. I don't know. But you went looking for faith in a place you'll never find it.

Tell me, If you wanted a God.

Would you want a God that served you? Or
Would you be looking for a God to serve?

Quote:Honestly, I don't think you understand the scientific method when you say that conclusions are not questioned and examined.

I didn't say that. I was asking about the method itself. Interesting how you didn't conclude that when that it exactly what I said. Is is possible that the method is never questioned? I'm not saying that it should be. I'm just asking is it ever...
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25-01-2014, 08:46 PM
RE: Questions That Led Me to Atheism #2
(25-01-2014 08:26 PM)Taqiyya Mockingbird Wrote:  
(24-01-2014 04:02 PM)Chas Wrote:  There are no sacred truths in science, everything is open to revision.

The scientific method is merely the manner in which to question nature and let the results speak for themselves. We use it because it works.

PhiloSOPHISTS may question the scientific method. Scientists are usually too busy doing science to bother.


fixed that for ya.

It didn't require fixing. Dodgy

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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