Questions That Led Me to Atheism #3
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24-01-2014, 12:41 PM (This post was last modified: 24-01-2014 12:46 PM by Baruch.)
RE: Questions That Led Me to Atheism #3
Quote:Have any of these gods dedicated themselves to a people ?

Eh ? Like a holocaust...
Eh.....mmm....
Kinda had to wait for the Russians, American & British Allied forces for rescue....
...and a little late.

watch God on trial.......
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5caAug5n8Zk




A wise man proportions his belief to the evidence -
David Hume


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24-01-2014, 12:48 PM
RE: Questions That Led Me to Atheism #3
(24-01-2014 12:07 PM)anidominus Wrote:  
(24-01-2014 10:46 AM)Mathilda Wrote:  So you also believe in the Hindu gods and the pagan gods?

It would explain the second commandment "You shall have no other gods before me"

Do any of these gods walk on water, heel the sick, cure the blind, instantly free a dedicate people (Jews) from a powerful ruler (Egypt)? Which one of these gods boast the claims of Yahweh? Do these gods have 2 billion worshipers world wide? Can you find these gods all over the world? Have any of these gods dedicated themselves to a people, gave them a land, allowed them to be removed from the land for nearly 2,000 years and then have those same people return to that land? Has any of those gods lay claim to have followers that with his might and through faith can raise the dead? Did any of those gods die and resurrect themselves in 3 days? What are the claims of these gods? What are their credentials? Can any of these gods lay claim to having introduce himself to small portion of the population (Jews) and yet have his prophets (from Israel) go through out the world to talk about a God the locals (the gentiles) had no reason to believe in and have himself be the dominate God in that area? Has any of these Gods inspired men to form a county which says, "We hold these truths to be self-evident..." and have that country become the most powerful country in the world and the most peaceful place in the planet where all people from around the world can come and live in peace? What are the claims of these gods? If they can show me where they have accomplished what Jesus has accomplished then perhaps I will pay them some attention, until then they can kiss me where the sun don't shine.

Ah, but you don't understand that the Bible is the claim, it's not the evidence.

To use the Bible as evidence, you first have to demonstrate its truth. I'll wait. Drinking Beverage

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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24-01-2014, 12:57 PM
RE: Questions That Led Me to Atheism #3
(24-01-2014 12:07 PM)anidominus Wrote:  Do any of these gods walk on water, heel the sick, cure the blind, instantly free a dedicate people (Jews) from a powerful ruler (Egypt)? Which one of these gods boast the claims of Yahweh? Do these gods have 2 billion worshipers world wide? Can you find these gods all over the world? Have any of these gods dedicated themselves to a people, gave them a land, allowed them to be removed from the land for nearly 2,000 years and then have those same people return to that land? Has any of those gods lay claim to have followers that with his might and through faith can raise the dead? Did any of those gods die and resurrect themselves in 3 days? What are the claims of these gods? What are their credentials? Can any of these gods lay claim to having introduce himself to small portion of the population (Jews) and yet have his prophets (from Israel) go through out the world to talk about a God the locals (the gentiles) had no reason to believe in and have himself be the dominate God in that area? Has any of these Gods inspired men to form a county which says, "We hold these truths to be self-evident..." and have that country become the most powerful country in the world and the most peaceful place in the planet where all people from around the world can come and live in peace? What are the claims of these gods? If they can show me where they have accomplished what Jesus has accomplished then perhaps I will pay them some attention, until then they can kiss me where the sun don't shine.

So you do believe that they exist but you just don't think that they are as worthy as the god that you worship?

Is it possible to have multiple gods?
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24-01-2014, 01:30 PM
RE: Questions That Led Me to Atheism #3
(24-01-2014 12:07 PM)anidominus Wrote:  Do any of these gods walk on water, heel the sick, cure the blind, instantly free a dedicate people (Jews) from a powerful ruler (Egypt)? Which one of these gods boast the claims of Yahweh?

Did yours? Do you have any evidence that he did other than that you read it in a book somewhere?


(24-01-2014 12:07 PM)anidominus Wrote:  Do these gods have 2 billion worshipers world wide?

Not only is this an argument of popularity, there are still other really popular religions in the world. Does the fact that there are 1.5 billion Muslims worldwide also mean that Allah is real?

Before you go on to tell me that the 2.5 billion Christians outnumber the Muslims, remember that at one point in time, they were outnumbered by other religions, so obviously, numbers of adherents means nothing about truth.

Also, while Christianity may be the largest region in the world (35% of the population, if you combine all the different sects; many of whom have killed each other gleefully), Christianity is still a minority opinion worldwide.

So, go on again explaining why your argument of popularity matters.


(24-01-2014 12:07 PM)anidominus Wrote:  Can you find these gods all over the world? Have any of these gods dedicated themselves to a people, gave them a land, allowed them to be removed from the land for nearly 2,000 years and then have those same people return to that land? Has any of those gods lay claim to have followers that with his might and through faith can raise the dead? Did any of those gods die and resurrect themselves in 3 days? What are the claims of these gods? What are their credentials? Can any of these gods lay claim to having introduce himself to small portion of the population (Jews) and yet have his prophets (from Israel) go through out the world to talk about a God the locals (the gentiles) had no reason to believe in and have himself be the dominate God in that area? Has any of these Gods inspired men to form a county which says, "We hold these truths to be self-evident..." and have that country become the most powerful country in the world and the most peaceful place in the planet where all people from around the world can come and live in peace? What are the claims of these gods? If they can show me where they have accomplished what Jesus has accomplished then perhaps I will pay them some attention, until then they can kiss me where the sun don't shine.

What are Jesus' credentials? How do you know he did what he did aside from having read it in a book somewhere?



Also, this is eerily close to what I said to you earlier, and you never responded:

There is no evidence for the existence of God that doesn't require you to assume he exists in the first place.

Please, point me to a piece of evidence where you don't assume his existence in the premise and where the conclusion couldn't be adjusted to point to a different god.

I'm still waiting, as are the rest of us.
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24-01-2014, 01:40 PM
RE: Questions That Led Me to Atheism #3
(24-01-2014 12:07 PM)anidominus Wrote:  Did any of those gods die and resurrect themselves in 3 days?

Three of them were resurrected. Two of them do so on an annual basis (albeit, it takes longer than three days).
  • Attis dies and is resurrected annually.
  • Krishna dies and is resurrected as a heavenly being.
  • Dionysus also dies and is resurrected annually.

Where exactly are you going with this? It's like, because there are bigger stories about Jesus that it makes him more likely, or something? Is this a "who's god can beat up who's" sorta thing? Because none of the rest of us believe in any of those gods. This is the weirdest attempt I've seen to argue with atheists about Jesus.
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24-01-2014, 02:07 PM (This post was last modified: 24-01-2014 03:06 PM by Baruch.)
RE: Questions That Led Me to Atheism #3
Quote:'anidominus' said.....
Do any of these gods walk on water, heel the sick.........

Asclepius the God of healing.

I would go as far as saying Asclepius was far superior to Jesus - it is Asclepius which was invoked & inspired the Hippocratic oath ! Hence medicine was born - thanks to ancient Greeks testing their ideas......except religions usually delayed medicine, wasting time with prayer until the enlightenment really got things going again - free to investigate, gather evidence and heal Gods mess.

...as for God heeling the sick ? Last time I checked a child was dying of malaria every 45 seconds because God made plasmodium parasites and plasmodiums and uses human hosts for transmission - what a lovely God !!!!!!!!!!!
Heart to God who tortures people on a daily basis

A wise man proportions his belief to the evidence -
David Hume


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24-01-2014, 02:10 PM
RE: Questions That Led Me to Atheism #3
Quote:
Quote:anidominus says:
There are about 50 independent sources in the bible

Not on our planet.

...still waiting for "the 50."

...and please don't include forgeries & interpolations such as Josephus mentioning Jesus.

........waiting.Consider

A wise man proportions his belief to the evidence -
David Hume


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24-01-2014, 03:03 PM
RE: Questions That Led Me to Atheism #3
(24-01-2014 11:23 AM)Mathilda Wrote:  
(24-01-2014 11:02 AM)Baruch Wrote:  This isn't the case or its an over extrapolation - Demasio is working with patients with neurological damage eg frontal cortex disconnected from limbic system and such people cannot make decisions.

Yes my post was an over-extrapolation and does not explain the entirety of how the human brain works. I was trying to tone down the details because I was trying to communicate an idea to someone completely led by faith.

I should have said "you need to be able to make irrational choices in order to act rationally".
Saying that I do enjoy reading Antonio Damasio - and his case against Dualism and the erroneous concept of soul is excellent. As is V. S.Ramachandran and Oliver Sacks - reveals how neurology & cognitive sciences really make ancient ideas of the soul misconceived & erroneous.

A wise man proportions his belief to the evidence -
David Hume


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24-01-2014, 03:22 PM
RE: Questions That Led Me to Atheism #3
(23-01-2014 04:33 PM)RobbyPants Wrote:  
(23-01-2014 03:36 PM)Alla Wrote:  One of the reasons why mortals can not be in the presence of God is because they are fallen. We are NOT worthy now to see God.

It's weird to consider us "fallen" when your belief system states that we came down from heaven to earth to be tested.

God: "I want to test you. Part of testing you is making you terrible."
It is not part of the test to be perfect. And while we are not perfect we can not be in presence of God.
Not to be in presence of God and try to be as good as possible is part of the test.

English is not my native language.
that awkward moment between the Premortal Existence and your Resurrection
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24-01-2014, 03:32 PM
RE: Questions That Led Me to Atheism #3
(24-01-2014 01:40 PM)RobbyPants Wrote:  
(24-01-2014 12:07 PM)anidominus Wrote:  Did any of those gods die and resurrect themselves in 3 days?

Three of them were resurrected. Two of them do so on an annual basis (albeit, it takes longer than three days).
  • Attis dies and is resurrected annually.
  • Krishna dies and is resurrected as a heavenly being.
  • Dionysus also dies and is resurrected annually.

Where exactly are you going with this? It's like, because there are bigger stories about Jesus that it makes him more likely, or something? Is this a "who's god can beat up who's" sorta thing? Because none of the rest of us believe in any of those gods. This is the weirdest attempt I've seen to argue with atheists about Jesus.

And what did it accomplish?
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