Questions That Led Me to Atheism #3
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25-01-2014, 07:08 PM
RE: Questions That Led Me to Atheism #3
You actually believe in the flood story, and continue to defend it. I deliberately gave you the very first four that came up in a google search because the argument you made that there was nothing discrediting the global flood myth showed such an abysmal lack of knowledge on history, archeology, anthropology, and geology I feel it warrants no more serious persuit. If you want to believe this be honest and say that you believe it despite any evidence to the contrary instead of being so intellectually dishonest as deny the evidence.

Also I would like to state that the bible is evidence of NOTHING. No written testimony is sufficient to establish anything. Your doctor, for example. He can claim credentials, but if I call the university he claims and they have no record of him that paper on his wall is worthless. If there are no patients I can go speak to hen anything he might say is suspect and I probably won't trust him.

We know how the bible came to be put together, and can even give a good idea on the authors in some cases. Not all, I admit, but some. These men had very clear agendas and their writing is therefore not to be trusted without huge caveats or taken at face value.
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25-01-2014, 07:24 PM
RE: Questions That Led Me to Atheism #3
(25-01-2014 06:44 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(25-01-2014 06:39 PM)anidominus Wrote:  Is this what you've been oh so begging me to respond to? You made a bunch of statements about all the ways they have apparently dis proven the Bible but none of it does such a thing. We don't know enough about that time period to make such claims. And every time you people send me links they all make the same mistakes.

1) Assuming that because the Flood narrative is found in other cultuers the Flood story in the Bible is just a copy. FACT: If your family just got off a boat after the enter planet was flooded you're going to tell that story to your offspring who will tell it to theirs so on and so forth. The flood story may change the farther it gets from ground zero but it happened.

2) Assuming the climate, animal population etc of the planet prior to the flood among other things they couldn't possibly know anything about.

The other flood stories predate the Biblical one.

The distribution of animals today belies the flood story , as does all of geology.

You can't actually believe the flood story in the face of all the evidence.

Typically, I ignore comments like this. His first mistake is assuming that just because he found a paper that dates farther back than the paper regarding Noah's flood that both stories don't have the same original source. smh

This is what frustrates me about you so called thinking atheist. You don't think as well as you think you do.
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25-01-2014, 07:58 PM
RE: Questions That Led Me to Atheism #3
(25-01-2014 07:24 PM)anidominus Wrote:  
(25-01-2014 06:44 PM)Chas Wrote:  The other flood stories predate the Biblical one.

The distribution of animals today belies the flood story , as does all of geology.

You can't actually believe the flood story in the face of all the evidence.

Typically, I ignore comments like this. His first mistake is assuming that just because he found a paper that dates farther back than the paper regarding Noah's flood that both stories don't have the same original source. smh

This is what frustrates me about you so called thinking atheist. You don't think as well as you think you do.

Have you ever read a science book? Consider

It appears the only things you have ever read are Bible stories.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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25-01-2014, 08:05 PM
RE: Questions That Led Me to Atheism #3
(25-01-2014 07:24 PM)anidominus Wrote:  Typically, I ignore comments like this. His first mistake is assuming that just because he found a paper that dates farther back than the paper regarding Noah's flood that both stories don't have the same original source. smh

This is what frustrates me about you so called thinking atheist. You don't think as well as you think you do.

Forget about Gilgamesh for the time being.

How long ago (roughly) was the flood? How many different animals were on the ark? Do all the animals that exist today exists as they did during the flood (that is, they haven't evolved since then)? If every living animal was let off the Ark at Mt. Ararat, how did they get to all the seven continents?
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25-01-2014, 08:42 PM
RE: Questions That Led Me to Atheism #3
(25-01-2014 08:05 PM)RobbyPants Wrote:  
(25-01-2014 07:24 PM)anidominus Wrote:  Typically, I ignore comments like this. His first mistake is assuming that just because he found a paper that dates farther back than the paper regarding Noah's flood that both stories don't have the same original source. smh

This is what frustrates me about you so called thinking atheist. You don't think as well as you think you do.

Forget about Gilgamesh for the time being.

How long ago (roughly) was the flood? How many different animals were on the ark? Do all the animals that exist today exists as they did during the flood (that is, they haven't evolved since then)? If every living animal was let off the Ark at Mt. Ararat, how did they get to all the seven continents?

In the words of Mr Bean....
Magic (snort)

Or was that

(snort) magic.


God is a concept by which we measure our pain -- John Lennon

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26-01-2014, 03:53 AM
RE: Questions That Led Me to Atheism #3
Quote:anidominus
No offense, but I really couldn't care less about your credentials. There are idiots (not saying you are one) who have been teaching the bible for 20 years all over place. Its a shame but it happens.

As it happens I do care about credentials, if I go a doctor I hope they studied medicine, of course there can be rogues, of course they might not be up to date with continued professional development, or course there may be negligence etc however I still go to a doctor and not a banker. Oh, in US banker then doctor (I'm in UK)
Likewise:
If you have never studied sciences of paleoanthropology, geology, ecology, biology, human anthropology or don't accept evidence from multiple independent & interdisciplinary sources which for the last 150 years which have cumulatively disproved the Noach flood story - then how can you comment ? You think you know more just by reading a 3000 years old book ?

either
A:God has deliberately left massive contrary evidence (placing dino fossils, pretend starlight distances, pretend geology etc) to test peoples faith in the bible
- making Him a deceiver

B: The bible has been falsified - end game, its just bronze age writers making big mistakes copied in the works of "the prophets" and Jesus - the deck collapses and the dominoes fall.

C: The bible is intending a very large local flood - lets face it, this isn't how it was interpreted until modern times (by liberal/reform Jews/Christians) when we knew the geology & biology. Perhaps Maimonides or scholastic jewish sources may hint to this with different uses of the word "Kol Ha-Aretz" - not being "everything" but local lands like a country not globe (uses same word for a famine rather than the local land)
However context of water covering mountains, animal pairs, restarting of generations from Noach - all of the wider context does not support the local interpretation.


D: It is biblical truth but allegorical or metaphorical: Again this is not supported by the context (so much detail about generations of Noah's family and importance of the event in the larger biblical & theological narrative) It seems very far fetched to claim it is metaphor - especially because such interpretations really occur in the 20th century when we knew the science) The story reads as if it is a real history not a parable.


E: We are all deluded fallen sinners
from Adam and cannot interpret the world - this would end up being similar to A. God becomes a great deceiver by misleading peoples faculties so when they gather evidence it is all false. However this is cleverer than A because God gets of the hook and blames Adam for sinning. Every generation afterwards can no longer interpret the world due to intrinsic sin and requires faith to overcome not being able to see the evidence - circular argument and ends up like A. E: is also unlikely because the geological-biological evidence isn't random or ad hoc but very coherent and rational.

The likelihood is there will be cognitive dissonance before the evidence is acknowledged showing the bible to be false. People don't just wake up one day after a life time of being religious and surrounded by religious community, look at some new scientific discoveries over the last 200years and say "Hey I was wrong, bible is just a bunch of myths"
Most likely people will go from scenario A+E to C+D and then B - conclude bible is false. (I did)

A wise man proportions his belief to the evidence -
David Hume


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26-01-2014, 04:54 AM
RE: Questions That Led Me to Atheism #3
(24-01-2014 09:45 PM)Taqiyya Mockingbird Wrote:  
(23-01-2014 02:18 PM)anidominus Wrote:  Faith got us to the moon.

SCIENCE and TECHNOLOGY got us to the moon. You are a fucking idiot.

Haven't you heard of faith engines? 10 parts faith mixed with 1 part cynicism leads to an explosive combination.
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26-01-2014, 10:52 AM
RE: Questions That Led Me to Atheism #3
(26-01-2014 04:54 AM)Mathilda Wrote:  
(24-01-2014 09:45 PM)Taqiyya Mockingbird Wrote:  SCIENCE and TECHNOLOGY got us to the moon. You are a fucking idiot.

Haven't you heard of faith engines? 10 parts faith mixed with 1 part cynicism leads to an explosive combination.

Have you heard of prayer-engines ? Goes well with the HolyGhostTM translator app

A wise man proportions his belief to the evidence -
David Hume


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26-01-2014, 12:10 PM
RE: Questions That Led Me to Atheism #3
(25-01-2014 08:05 PM)RobbyPants Wrote:  
(25-01-2014 07:24 PM)anidominus Wrote:  Typically, I ignore comments like this. His first mistake is assuming that just because he found a paper that dates farther back than the paper regarding Noah's flood that both stories don't have the same original source. smh

This is what frustrates me about you so called thinking atheist. You don't think as well as you think you do.

Forget about Gilgamesh for the time being.

How long ago (roughly) was the flood? How many different animals were on the ark? Do all the animals that exist today exists as they did during the flood (that is, they haven't evolved since then)? If every living animal was let off the Ark at Mt. Ararat, how did they get to all the seven continents?

Off the top of my head, I don't know.
I don't know that either, all land animals I suppose.
I have no idea.
Because as the bible states at some point the earth was dived.
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26-01-2014, 12:11 PM
RE: Questions That Led Me to Atheism #3
(26-01-2014 03:53 AM)Baruch Wrote:  
Quote:anidominus
No offense, but I really couldn't care less about your credentials. There are idiots (not saying you are one) who have been teaching the bible for 20 years all over place. Its a shame but it happens.

As it happens I do care about credentials, if I go a doctor I hope they studied medicine, of course there can be rogues, of course they might not be up to date with continued professional development, or course there may be negligence etc however I still go to a doctor and not a banker. Oh, in US banker then doctor (I'm in UK)
Likewise:
If you have never studied sciences of paleoanthropology, geology, ecology, biology, human anthropology or don't accept evidence from multiple independent & interdisciplinary sources which for the last 150 years which have cumulatively disproved the Noach flood story - then how can you comment ? You think you know more just by reading a 3000 years old book ?

either
A:God has deliberately left massive contrary evidence (placing dino fossils, pretend starlight distances, pretend geology etc) to test peoples faith in the bible
- making Him a deceiver

B: The bible has been falsified - end game, its just bronze age writers making big mistakes copied in the works of "the prophets" and Jesus - the deck collapses and the dominoes fall.

C: The bible is intending a very large local flood - lets face it, this isn't how it was interpreted until modern times (by liberal/reform Jews/Christians) when we knew the geology & biology. Perhaps Maimonides or scholastic jewish sources may hint to this with different uses of the word "Kol Ha-Aretz" - not being "everything" but local lands like a country not globe (uses same word for a famine rather than the local land)
However context of water covering mountains, animal pairs, restarting of generations from Noach - all of the wider context does not support the local interpretation.


D: It is biblical truth but allegorical or metaphorical: Again this is not supported by the context (so much detail about generations of Noah's family and importance of the event in the larger biblical & theological narrative) It seems very far fetched to claim it is metaphor - especially because such interpretations really occur in the 20th century when we knew the science) The story reads as if it is a real history not a parable.


E: We are all deluded fallen sinners
from Adam and cannot interpret the world - this would end up being similar to A. God becomes a great deceiver by misleading peoples faculties so when they gather evidence it is all false. However this is cleverer than A because God gets of the hook and blames Adam for sinning. Every generation afterwards can no longer interpret the world due to intrinsic sin and requires faith to overcome not being able to see the evidence - circular argument and ends up like A. E: is also unlikely because the geological-biological evidence isn't random or ad hoc but very coherent and rational.

The likelihood is there will be cognitive dissonance before the evidence is acknowledged showing the bible to be false. People don't just wake up one day after a life time of being religious and surrounded by religious community, look at some new scientific discoveries over the last 200years and say "Hey I was wrong, bible is just a bunch of myths"
Most likely people will go from scenario A+E to C+D and then B - conclude bible is false. (I did)

You misunderstood me. I said I didn't care about YOUR credentials.
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