Questions about Evolution
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19-07-2016, 02:54 PM
RE: Questions about Evolution
Question to ask Christians who accept evolution:

Atheist: You believe in evolution and the existence of the human soul right?

Christian: Yes

Atheist: Ok cool. So if you believe in evolution, then you believe at some point in time that there weren't any animals, just bacteria inhabiting the Earth.

Christian: Yes, I suppose so.

Athiest: Cool, me too. Do you believe that bacteria have souls?

Christian: Of course bacteria don't have souls.

Atheist: Ok, then at what point in evolution did God add a soul?

Christian: Fuck
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20-07-2016, 02:22 AM
RE: Questions about Evolution
(22-06-2016 05:46 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(22-06-2016 03:12 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  Two words: selection pressures.

The more dangerous the issue, the more radical the evolved trait.

I don't think it works that way. Typically, natural selection 'settles for' good enough.

Environmental issues only indirectly drive evolution. If sufficient variation is not present or forthcoming, extinction is likely.

Not in a teleological sense, no doubt. I didn't mean to imply that, and I can see how I might have given that impression.

However, "good enough" is proportional to the evolved trait in a species subject to that pressure. It's why gazelle are pretty goddamned fast, considering the predators finding them tasty.

Variation, on the other hand, arises randomly, via mutation -- gamma ray hits the genome at precisely the right (or more often, wrong) spot, inflicting a mutation which may or may not be susceptible to environmental pruning, depending on phenotypical expression.

Put shortly: evolution is fed by mutation, and driven by both natural and sexual selection. But -- if the potential is present in recessive alleles, and the population is large enough to withstand the pressure until phenotypical expression can address the pressure, the more dangerous the pressure, the more radical the adaptation.

Cheetahs run fast for a reason.
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20-07-2016, 03:01 AM
RE: Questions about Evolution
Simply, Evolution does not work that way

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"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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09-10-2016, 02:58 PM
RE: Questions about Evolution
I always thought the garden of Eden story was about how they had disobeyed God. In the passage, God clearly states that if they eat the fruit they die. And what's this about humans not having free will until eating the fruit? When eve took the fruit the serpent didn't say "eat the fruit!" He tried to reason with her about eating it. He himself took a bite and said, "see told ya you wouldn't die!" If he had to reason with her, wouldn't that mean she was thinking about it? Wouldn't she have some sort of conscience telling her it was wrong? It was only until the serpent ate the fruit that she decided to take a bite too, which is where she messed up. She shouldn't have listened to the serpent. And then she gives it too Adam, who doesn't even hesitate when eating the fruit. And then when God comes and confronts them, instead of owning up to what they did, they both blame him. "It was the snake YOU made God, not me." "It was the woman YOU gave me, not me." It's not like the snake stuffed the Apple in her mouth, she had a choice and she took it. And apparently Adam just decided to not even think about the repercussions and eats it anyway. Which is why they were thrown out, and all the bad shit we have today exsists.

I always thought humans always had free will simply because of eve. She thinks about it, but Adam doesn't. Why is that? Why doesn't Adam stop for a moment and think about what could happen? I wonder... did Adam not have free will then? Was that why he made women in the first place? To help Adam think about stuff? But that doesn't really make a whole lot of sense either...

Adam only got wisdom through the tree, the same as eve. But he then took charge of everything when they were kicked out. One of eve's punishments was "you will be ruled over by your husband." What if he didn't get free will until he ate from the tree, and that's why God left it there. He was planning on giving it to them, but they ate it too early, and so now they're stuck with a messed up world.
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09-10-2016, 03:03 PM
RE: Questions about Evolution
(09-10-2016 02:58 PM)MsMacintosh Wrote:  I always thought the garden of Eden story was about how they had disobeyed God. In the passage, God clearly states that if they eat the fruit they die. And what's this about humans not having free will until eating the fruit? When eve took the fruit the serpent didn't say "eat the fruit!" He tried to reason with her about eating it. He himself took a bite and said, "see told ya you wouldn't die!" If he had to reason with her, wouldn't that mean she was thinking about it? Wouldn't she have some sort of conscience telling her it was wrong? It was only until the serpent ate the fruit that she decided to take a bite too, which is where she messed up. She shouldn't have listened to the serpent. And then she gives it too Adam, who doesn't even hesitate when eating the fruit. And then when God comes and confronts them, instead of owning up to what they did, they both blame him. "It was the snake YOU made God, not me." "It was the woman YOU gave me, not me." It's not like the snake stuffed the Apple in her mouth, she had a choice and she took it. And apparently Adam just decided to not even think about the repercussions and eats it anyway. Which is why they were thrown out, and all the bad shit we have today exsists.

I always thought humans always had free will simply because of eve. She thinks about it, but Adam doesn't. Why is that? Why doesn't Adam stop for a moment and think about what could happen? I wonder... did Adam not have free will then? Was that why he made women in the first place? To help Adam think about stuff? But that doesn't really make a whole lot of sense either...

Adam only got wisdom through the tree, the same as eve. But he then took charge of everything when they were kicked out. One of eve's punishments was "you will be ruled over by your husband." What if he didn't get free will until he ate from the tree, and that's why God left it there. He was planning on giving it to them, but they ate it too early, and so now they're stuck with a messed up world.

Hi Welcome--Are you saying you believe this story as truth or are you simply commenting on it as myth?

"Let the waters settle and you will see the moon and stars mirrored in your own being." -Rumi
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09-10-2016, 03:04 PM
RE: Questions about Evolution
Aw! How did I miss all this fun?

Weeping

Tomorrow is precious, don't ruin it by fouling up today.
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09-10-2016, 03:12 PM
RE: Questions about Evolution
(09-10-2016 02:58 PM)MsMacintosh Wrote:  He himself took a bite and said, "see told ya you wouldn't die!"

I don't remember that part of the story. He told her she would not die (not that Eve would have had any concept of death anyway) but I don't remember the serpent taking a bite of the fruit.

As for the rest, it's a fairy tale at best and not a very good one at that. Given that they could not have known good from evil until they ate the fruit they can't be blamed for not being good.

Atheism: it's not just for communists any more!
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09-10-2016, 03:32 PM
RE: Questions about Evolution
Thump wrote:
Quote:the more dangerous the pressure, the more radical the adaptation.

Not happy with that, can radical change happen quickly, without near population crash anyway - and that might certainly happen.

At least change "dangerous" to "extreme"! Smile

Though, then I think of extremophiles in almost totally enclosed systems in caves. These are not places were step-by-step evolution, or even migration, seems to work too well.

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09-10-2016, 03:35 PM
RE: Questions about Evolution
(22-06-2016 09:12 AM)BaileyM Wrote:  If evolution is real, and people evolve based on their circumstances... Then why don't Eskimos have fur and why don't people in hot areas have silver reflective skin that keeps them safe from the sun?

You may not be aware of it, but the peoples that evolved in Africa have very dark skin that doesn't burn as easily as people who evolved in Europe during the ice ages.
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09-10-2016, 03:37 PM
RE: Questions about Evolution
Just letting you guys know this is an old thread that a newbie resurrected. I haven't seen the OP on here since first posting.

"Let the waters settle and you will see the moon and stars mirrored in your own being." -Rumi
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