Questions for Apologists?
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19-07-2012, 09:07 AM
RE: Questions for Apologists?
(19-07-2012 08:21 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  It could very well be that one is true and one was embellished legend. This doesn't damage the claim of inspiration.
And that is the point at which rational discussion ends. Drinking Beverage

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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19-07-2012, 09:13 AM
RE: Questions for Apologists?
(19-07-2012 08:35 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  Can you rephrase your questions? I want to try and answer these, but my brain isn't working right now.
I'll pick my favorite from that list and rephrase it. Those who believe that God has created the universe usually claim that this is the case because everything needs to be created. But right after that they claim that their God didn't need to be created, which is a logical fallacy called Special Pleading. If they don't think this invalidates their argument, then they apparently don't "believe" in logic.

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19-07-2012, 09:23 AM (This post was last modified: 19-07-2012 09:26 AM by houseofcantor.)
RE: Questions for Apologists?
(19-07-2012 08:35 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(19-07-2012 06:29 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Ask them how does a deity "act" before spacetime existed. (meaningless). They will say, "god exists outside space time". (Outside is space. The most they can assert is concurrence.)

Then ask how their non-created being is NOT Special Pleading. Then ask why they do not believe in Logic.

Ask them to give you one property of existence that does not require time.

Ask them anything about the Yahweh god. They won't have a clue.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MlnnWbkMlbg

Ask them for proof of non infinite regression.

Can you rephrase your questions? I want to try and answer these, but my brain isn't working right now.
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So I'm a prophet, dig? And one question that always comes up, how do you know you are serving the will of god?


The answer is, ya don't. You keep asking the question. Thumbsup

(19-07-2012 09:07 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(19-07-2012 08:21 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  It could very well be that one is true and one was embellished legend. This doesn't damage the claim of inspiration.
And that is the point at which rational discussion ends. Drinking Beverage

Someday, mathematicians may discover if the set of theology intersects the set of rational discussion. Thumbsup

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19-07-2012, 12:48 PM
RE: Questions for Apologists?
Quote: Evil is necessary and created by God. If evil didn't exist, humans would be equal to God because they would be perfect.
How is God "perfect" if he needs worship and adulation? How does a "perfect" God become bored and lonely and feel the need to create beings for the express purpose of giving him some company and something to do?
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19-07-2012, 12:55 PM
RE: Questions for Apologists?
(19-07-2012 12:48 PM)ibanezerscrooge Wrote:  
Quote: Evil is necessary and created by God. If evil didn't exist, humans would be equal to God because they would be perfect.
How is God "perfect" if he needs worship and adulation? How does a "perfect" God become bored and lonely and feel the need to create beings for the express purpose of giving him some company and something to do?
It sounds like you think that his concept is rational/logical. KC can easily answer your questions, saying "It's part of God's perfect plan." and that's it. You'll save yourself a lot of effort and frustration if you don't even attempt to argue about such silly ideas. There's no evidence for them and they are based on blind faith.

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19-07-2012, 03:08 PM
RE: Questions for Apologists?
Awesome! A lot of these questions are great! Smile
I'm going to write them down and see how much I can get away with asking. Right now I'm going to go watch Shaolin Soccer with my wife. brb

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19-07-2012, 03:30 PM (This post was last modified: 19-07-2012 03:41 PM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Questions for Apologists?
(19-07-2012 07:14 AM)houseofcantor Wrote:  I try not to harp on being a prophet in atheistic environments, but let me give you some good advice:

Don't ask no questions ya don't want answered. Big Grin

I was questioning why someone would ask a question of apologetics on an atheist forum, but there seems to be a lot of that kinda thing happening. I see the Buckster brought up time - 'cause he's on it like that - and one of the first things you learn in prophet school - OTJ - is that god does not do sequential time.
So first I always think "hmm, wants a preview of what they're gonna face". Then I'm goin "well, what if I did go there, and meet a god there ? Then what ? They aren't gonna change, and we aren't gonna change, so is the one marginal changer worth the time. Nu-uh. Ain't gonna bother with Father Long Neck either. If I needed a Catholic Answer, I'd go over there. Since it's simply impossible, that I'm gonna change, as I'm a Jungian-Gestalt-Deconstructionist, insider-turned-outsider, take-em-apart-and-put-em-back-together kinda guy, (I committed the sin again the Holy Ghost .. don't ya know), (I've seen the bullshit from the inside), there is no way, at this point .. out, my experience could white-wash what I know. It's all predicated on the (supposed), secret knowledge of the experts, (priests), which they no longer hold, exclusively. So since it is impossible, why even bother, as hoc says ? Since we know they admit that the "leap" is necessary, (faith is a "virtue" ... however capriciously granted), and I ain't jumpin without (a) reason, it means we just have to stare at each other over the back fence. Stay outta my yard. Got better shit ta do.

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Those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music - Friedrich Nietzsche
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19-07-2012, 03:38 PM
RE: Questions for Apologists?
(19-07-2012 08:33 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(19-07-2012 05:56 AM)Atothetheist Wrote:  Do they believe in the standard model of God? (i.e all good, all powerful, all knowing?) Cuz if they do, I already am convinced their God is wrong.

All knowing
All powerful
All present

Quote:Even if God defies logic, and is all powerful, the problem of evil should provide me with enough information to gauge the likeliness of the God they subscribe to

Evil is necessary and created by God. If evil didn't exist, humans would be equal to God because they would be perfect.

Quote:If God's word is infallible, and can never be wrong, why are there commands to kill people who worship other Gods (OT), and why don't we follow them now?

Common misnomer. Bible never claims to be infallible. It is inspired by God. There is a message in the Bible that is meant to be taught; literal perfection wasn't God's goal or intent. Never was. The Bible still has a likeness of the times and written by men; however, the message is inspired.

What the Bible claims about it's scripture:
2 Timothy 3:16
16 All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness;

As for your question, this was a command for the Jews. God commanded this as a preservation for the Messianic Line.

Quote:If the Bible is infallible, and can never be wrong, by definition, the Bible can't be wrong for the time, because it is always the truth.

See above.

Quote:Which translation is the best one for the Bible? This one is important, not only can you now know which Bible they prefer, some of the other apologists might say a different translation, this is to show you how diverse, and almost dogmatic there prefferances to the translations are.

There is no absolutely correct translation. There are more accurate translations. There are also literal translations (words are literally translated) and dynamic translations (thoughts and messages are translated from the words).

Literal translations are more accurate; however, if you wants the most accurate message, you will need to see what the Greek and Hebrew say.
KC, these are questions to Apologists, they might have different beliefs than yours. Had I known you were going to answer them, I would have taliored the questions to your beliefs.

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19-07-2012, 03:41 PM
RE: Questions for Apologists?
(19-07-2012 03:38 PM)Atothetheist Wrote:  
(19-07-2012 08:33 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  All knowing
All powerful
All present


Evil is necessary and created by God. If evil didn't exist, humans would be equal to God because they would be perfect.


Common misnomer. Bible never claims to be infallible. It is inspired by God. There is a message in the Bible that is meant to be taught; literal perfection wasn't God's goal or intent. Never was. The Bible still has a likeness of the times and written by men; however, the message is inspired.

What the Bible claims about it's scripture:
2 Timothy 3:16
16 All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness;

As for your question, this was a command for the Jews. God commanded this as a preservation for the Messianic Line.


See above.


There is no absolutely correct translation. There are more accurate translations. There are also literal translations (words are literally translated) and dynamic translations (thoughts and messages are translated from the words).

Literal translations are more accurate; however, if you wants the most accurate message, you will need to see what the Greek and Hebrew say.
KC, these are questions to Apologists, they might have different beliefs than yours. Had I known you were going to answer them, I would have taliored the questions to your beliefs.

Oh I know.

I was bored and was essentially giving a "heads up" to the OP. He may see something akin to what I said.

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19-07-2012, 03:42 PM
RE: Questions for Apologists?
(19-07-2012 12:55 PM)Vosur Wrote:  
(19-07-2012 12:48 PM)ibanezerscrooge Wrote:  How is God "perfect" if he needs worship and adulation? How does a "perfect" God become bored and lonely and feel the need to create beings for the express purpose of giving him some company and something to do?
It sounds like you think that his concept is rational/logical. KC can easily answer your questions, saying "It's part of God's perfect plan." and that's it. You'll save yourself a lot of effort and frustration if you don't even attempt to argue about such silly ideas. There's no evidence for them and they are based on blind faith.

Yep.

It is simply by faith. Something I have never denied.

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