Questions for Apologists?
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19-07-2012, 03:52 PM
RE: Questions for Apologists?
(19-07-2012 03:42 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(19-07-2012 12:55 PM)Vosur Wrote:  It sounds like you think that his concept is rational/logical. KC can easily answer your questions, saying "It's part of God's perfect plan." and that's it. You'll save yourself a lot of effort and frustration if you don't even attempt to argue about such silly ideas. There's no evidence for them and they are based on blind faith.

Yep.

It is simply by faith. Something I have never denied.
Indeed. If I recall correctly you even mentioned that your belief is illogical in the "Ask a Theist" thread.

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19-07-2012, 08:19 PM (This post was last modified: 19-07-2012 08:33 PM by fstratzero.)
RE: Questions for Apologists?
(19-07-2012 08:21 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(19-07-2012 05:42 AM)fstratzero Wrote:  See if they how they rectify Judas's death, whether or not his intestines exploded from his abdomen or if he committed suicide.
Acts 1:18
Matt 27:5

Matthew just says that he hanged himself. Acts said he did the same; except it seems the rope or platform broke and he fell. But really, this is irrelevant because the Bible never claims to be literally inerrant.

It could very well be that one is true and one was embellished legend. This doesn't damage the claim of inspiration.

Quote:If they say both then ask them about the book of Mark where Jesus appears to "the twelve" which Judas was apart. Also in Mark Judas neither kills himself or explodes.
Mark 14:20

Matthias replaced Judas.

Quote:In Matthew after committing suicide, which would send him to hell, ask him how Judas will sit on the twelve thrones, of Isreal, judging the twelve tribes of isreal.
Matthew 19:28

Matthias.
Revelation 19:9 -
"These are true words of God."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judas_Iscariot#Death

I swear KC you haven't read the bible.

Acts - 1:18 (With the payment he received for his wickedness, Judas bought a field; there he fell headlong, his body burst open and all his intestines spilled out.
Matthew-27:5 Then he threw down the pieces of silver in the temple and departed, and went and hanged himself.

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19-07-2012, 08:37 PM
RE: Questions for Apologists?
(19-07-2012 08:19 PM)fstratzero Wrote:  
(19-07-2012 08:21 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  Matthew just says that he hanged himself. Acts said he did the same; except it seems the rope or platform broke and he fell. But really, this is irrelevant because the Bible never claims to be literally inerrant.

It could very well be that one is true and one was embellished legend. This doesn't damage the claim of inspiration.


Matthias replaced Judas.


Matthias.
Revelation 19:9 -
"These are true words of God."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judas_Iscariot#Death

I swear KC you haven't read the bible.

Acts - 1:18 (With the payment he received for his wickedness, Judas bought a field; there he fell headlong, his body burst open and all his intestines spilled out.
Matthew-27:5 Then he threw down the pieces of silver in the temple and departed, and went and hanged himself.
Ummm... what are you talking about?

Out of context much?

The Revelation verse you mentioned is about Revelation... not the entire Bible. It was giving credence to John's vision.

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19-07-2012, 08:45 PM (This post was last modified: 19-07-2012 08:51 PM by fstratzero.)
RE: Questions for Apologists?
Really? How do you not see that I'm defending the questions I offered?

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19-07-2012, 08:50 PM
RE: Questions for Apologists?
(19-07-2012 08:45 PM)fstratzero Wrote:  
(19-07-2012 08:37 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  Ummm... what are you talking about?

Out of context much?

The Revelation verse you mentioned is about Revelation... not the entire Bible. It was giving credence to John's vision.
Really? How do you not see that I'm defending the questions I offered?
Your entire argument is based on the literal accuracy of the Bible; something that is never claimed in scripture.

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19-07-2012, 08:57 PM
RE: Questions for Apologists?
Even if the bible had "zero" contradiction it would still be false regarding it's claim of a god. No
Even if the Roman historians actually did write about a guy named Jesus, it would all just be mythology written down.
Finding errors in the bible is just a fun game for atheists to mess with the theists. Laughat
I am always amused at theist's defense of the bible's massive amount of contradictions, as if it actually mattered. Drinking Beverage
As many theists put it, "You just know it's true because the holly spirit tells you so." Angel
Priceless... Blink

The old gods are dead, let's invent some new ones before something really bad happens.
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19-07-2012, 09:34 PM (This post was last modified: 19-07-2012 09:59 PM by fstratzero.)
RE: Questions for Apologists?
Quote:It could very well be that one is true and one was embellished legend. This doesn't damage the claim of inspiration.
That depends on your definition of divine inspiration. We really need a Christianese thread to explain the difference in words that theists and the rest of the world use.
Quote: Matthias replaced Judas.
He did so in Acts. So he either stays in that book or he gets to be as out of context as my revelation quote.
Quote: The Revelation verse you mentioned is about Revelation... not the entire Bible. It was giving credence to John's vision.
Revelation 19:9 - "These are true words of God." If that doesn't apply any where else in the bible then how can Matthias apply anywhere else in the bible other than in it's own story?
Quote: Your entire argument is based on the literal accuracy of the Bible; something that is never claimed in scripture.
Actually it's not. By pointing out the problems you force a person to rectify things, and learn how they do so.
Hopefully the cognitive dissonance the contradictions provide will eventually force a person to drop the bible all together.

Interestingly it's fun to see how you adapt to arguments. Big Grin

NOTE: This is what arguing with an apologist is like.

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19-07-2012, 09:39 PM
RE: Questions for Apologists?
(19-07-2012 08:57 PM)Thomas Wrote:  Even if the bible had "zero" contradiction it would still be false regarding it's claim of a god.
Priceless...
Doesn't this statement of yours imply that you fully believe that there is no god?
Either I am reading you guys all wrong, or you guys keep saying things that prove the narrower definition of Atheism.
I need someone to please be honest here, when you say a statement like this guy just did, what do you expect us to think?
Do you really expect us to just accept your vague definition of what you believe?

So, if I were to just brainstorm this for a sec...

(Example)
An Atheist says: "The claim that there is a god is false"
Someone else says: "So your belief is that there is no god?"
Atheist: "No, it's not a belief! It's a rejection of belief!"
Dodgy

So someone please clear this up for me cause it's getting annoying...

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19-07-2012, 09:48 PM
RE: Questions for Apologists?
(19-07-2012 09:39 PM)ideasonscribe Wrote:  
(19-07-2012 08:57 PM)Thomas Wrote:  Even if the bible had "zero" contradiction it would still be false regarding it's claim of a god.
Priceless...
Doesn't this statement of yours imply that you fully believe that there is no god?
Either I am reading you guys all wrong, or you guys keep saying things that prove the narrower definition of Atheism.
I need someone to please be honest here, when you say a statement like this guy just did, what do you expect us to think?
Do you really expect us to just accept your vague definition of what you believe?

So, if I were to just brainstorm this for a sec...

(Example)
An Atheist says: "The claim that there is a god is false"
Someone else says: "So your belief is that there is no god?"
Atheist: "No, it's not a belief! It's a rejection of belief!"
Dodgy

So someone please clear this up for me cause it's getting annoying...
You're confusing rejection of positive claims (existence of God, Bible as proofs) for an assertion of the opposite.

You have no proof of your claim, so I state that your claim is not true.
I don't claim proof for no gods, I state that there is a paucity of evidence God and an enormous amount of evidence against the claim that there is.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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19-07-2012, 09:57 PM
RE: Questions for Apologists?
(19-07-2012 09:39 PM)ideasonscribe Wrote:  So someone please clear this up for me cause it's getting annoying...

God does not exist because existence limits god. Tongue

As for these other cats, ever watch Perry Mason? The theist goes, god created..., and the atheist goes, assumes facts not in evidence, yer honor.

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