Questions for Theists: God and Power
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03-07-2013, 09:53 AM
RE: Questions for Theists: God and Power
(03-07-2013 09:38 AM)Tartarus Sauce Wrote:  "Question for theists" on this forum really just means "question for kingschosen."

And only KC's got some kind of answer. We kill him last. Thumbsup

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03-07-2013, 10:15 AM
RE: Questions for Theists: God and Power
(03-07-2013 09:46 AM)Rahn127 Wrote:  
(03-07-2013 06:56 AM)DeavonReye Wrote:  It's said that "God is all powerful. . . . omnipotent [is another way to say it and sound even more holy, I guess]. . . . that there is no power greater than God."

My question is, . . . if he is all powerful, . . . is there anything that can cause god even the most remote level of pain?

He is in constant hellish pain all the time because of his omniscience.
He knows the pain of every soul he sends to hell for all eternity.

Um no.
I will have to disagree with that. In fact they are sado-masochists. Those in heaven enjoy watching the suffering of the damned.

I know cuz Aquinas sez so.
“That the saints may enjoy their beatitude and the grace of God more abundantly they are permitted to see the punishment of the damned in hell.”
― St. Thomas Aquinas

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03-07-2013, 10:51 AM
RE: Questions for Theists: God and Power
(03-07-2013 10:15 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(03-07-2013 09:46 AM)Rahn127 Wrote:  He is in constant hellish pain all the time because of his omniscience.
He knows the pain of every soul he sends to hell for all eternity.

Um no.
I will have to disagree with that. In fact they are sado-masochists. Those in heaven enjoy watching the suffering of the damned.

I know cuz Aquinas sez so.
“That the saints may enjoy their beatitude and the grace of God more abundantly they are permitted to see the punishment of the damned in hell.”
― St. Thomas Aquinas

Big Grin


What do "those in heaven" or "the saints" have to do with god & omniscience ?

That is like me taking about the President taking a piss off the balcony in the oval office and you then talking about Congress holding session in the rain.

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03-07-2013, 01:09 PM
RE: Questions for Theists: God and Power
I would say no in terms of physical pain since God most likely does not have a nervous system and as such no pain receptors.

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03-07-2013, 05:16 PM
RE: Questions for Theists: God and Power
Meh This argument is far too old.

It's like realizing that Megaman can freeze, explode and absorb his opponents power and is therefore undefeatable.

The same applies with god. Its an imaginary concept thought of in such a way that you can rationalize every objection away.

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04-07-2013, 08:17 AM
RE: Questions for Theists: God and Power
Here's the point. Regardless of whether or not a "god" could be born as a human, be tortured and killed, . . . would the "god" part actually "feel" any of it, or just consider it an interesting experience? But then, . . . would an "all knowing god" be able to find anything "interesting" to begin with? But yeah, . . . the "god" part wouldn't have pain receptors, nor would it know HOW to process pain.

My point is to show the non-logic of the christian concepts.
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04-07-2013, 01:06 PM
RE: Questions for Theists: God and Power
(04-07-2013 08:17 AM)DeavonReye Wrote:  Here's the point. Regardless of whether or not a "god" could be born as a human, be tortured and killed, . . . would the "god" part actually "feel" any of it, or just consider it an interesting experience? But then, . . . would an "all knowing god" be able to find anything "interesting" to begin with? But yeah, . . . the "god" part wouldn't have pain receptors, nor would it know HOW to process pain.

My point is to show the non-logic of the christian concepts.

I think the biggest non-logical concept is the foundational premise itself: Jesus died for our sins.

· sins that are given to everyone at birth by God

· Jesus is God, God cannot die, therefore Jesus cannot die

· he came back three days later (or nearly two days) clearly not dead, so where's the big sacrifice?

Send the poor bastard* to the worst concept of Hell imaginable instead. Now, that would be a sacrifice.


* Get it? It's funny since God, the father, wasn't married to Mary, nor was he wealthy. Wink

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04-07-2013, 01:11 PM
RE: Questions for Theists: God and Power
(03-07-2013 09:11 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  The simple explanation is that you're redefining omnipotence. By asking the question, "is there anything that can cause god even the most remote level of pain?", you are making the assumption that feeling pain lessens power.

God has emotions, and He hurts for His beloved. He already knows and has planned for bad things to happen because of His predestined plan, but He is still sadden at the effects that have to take place upon them.

Why would having emotions be considered to be less powerful?

Not "less powerful" but rather "less than all-powerful" if they were negative emotions. The implication of "having" emotions is that you don't have the power to avoid them, and the implication of "negative" emotions is that they'd be emotions that you'd want to avoid. If God can feel hurt or upset, then he doesn't have the power to avoid feeling hurt or upset. It's even more bizarre if you believe that God created such emotions, because he obviously wouldn't endow himself with them.

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04-07-2013, 05:44 PM
RE: Questions for Theists: God and Power
It's funny what you realize you used to believe after you stop believing. When I was a Christian, I would have agreed that God feels at least emotional pain from sinners turning away from him. But, if heaven is supposed to be total bliss, pain free, that seems odd that humans in the afterlife would feel no pain, while God would...

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05-07-2013, 07:44 AM
RE: Questions for Theists: God and Power
(04-07-2013 01:06 PM)Jeffasaurus Wrote:  
(04-07-2013 08:17 AM)DeavonReye Wrote:  Here's the point. Regardless of whether or not a "god" could be born as a human, be tortured and killed, . . . would the "god" part actually "feel" any of it, or just consider it an interesting experience? But then, . . . would an "all knowing god" be able to find anything "interesting" to begin with? But yeah, . . . the "god" part wouldn't have pain receptors, nor would it know HOW to process pain.

My point is to show the non-logic of the christian concepts.

I think the biggest non-logical concept is the foundational premise itself: Jesus died for our sins.

· sins that are given to everyone at birth by God

· Jesus is God, God cannot die, therefore Jesus cannot die

· he came back three days later (or nearly two days) clearly not dead, so where's the big sacrifice?

Send the poor bastard* to the worst concept of Hell imaginable instead. Now, that would be a sacrifice.


* Get it? It's funny since God, the father, wasn't married to Mary, nor was he wealthy. Wink

Very true. And the "god" part [that doesn't have nerve endings] wouldn't "feel" any abuse the Romans [supposedly] put on Jesus. It was just the abuse of a vessel. And the whole "my god, my god, why have you forsaken me". . .when Jesus was supposed to BE "god", . . . . . . . . . really???

And yep, . . . a little bit of "suffering" for this "god", . . . then gets an eternity of lowly humans worshipping at his feet. Sacrifice? Just another part of the "heavenly play", . . . written by the most inept writer in history.
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