Questions for Theists: God and Temptation
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08-07-2013, 07:08 AM (This post was last modified: 08-07-2013 11:02 AM by DeavonReye.)
Questions for Theists: God and Temptation
For sake of argument, fundamentalist evangelical christianity is true.

The bible claims that "god cannot be tempted, nor does he tempt anyone" [James 1:13]. Another verse claims that "Jesus was tempted, as we are, yet without sin" [Hebrews 4:15].

How is this even possible IF "Jesus was also god"?

Some christians say, "Well, it was the human part of Jesus that was tempted." It still wasn't the "god part". In fact, the "god part" couldn't be tempted.

So, the second question is, . . . in what way can this "god" be a fair judge if it is completely unable to understand what it is even like to "sin"?

Some christians say, "Well, he WAS tempted, but was able to overcome it". For me, that is a rationalization that doesn't actually address the issue. Let's say that you are a STAUNCHLY heterosexual male who despises anyone gay. Perhaps, one evening, you are out on the town and a gay man comes up to you and propositions you with what you found to be the most disgusting sexual acts you can think of and promises you that you will get immense pleasure from it. Would that actually tempt you? Or, say that you LOVE your sweet baby girl and someone says they'll give you $1,000 to kill her. Are you tempted?

This is the true issue with "Jesus was tempted.....". Before a temptation can actually be legitimate, the temptation has to be something you would actually desire. The Staunchly hetero man [married] being propositioned by an extremely attractive woman for "a night he will never forget, and will never get caught". In other words, . . . Jesus would have had to actually DESIRE each of our "sins", and in some cases, even the DESIRE is considered "a sin" with the christian god. So, before you can say "Jesus was tempted as we are. . . .", you must accept a god who would have WANTED to do . . . even some pretty disgusting things. That he didn't is irrelevant [as I said, with some, even the thought of it is "sin"].

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08-07-2013, 08:22 AM (This post was last modified: 08-07-2013 08:28 AM by childeye.)
RE: Questions for Theists: God and Temptation
(08-07-2013 07:08 AM)DeavonReye Wrote:  For sake of argument, fundamentalist evangelical christianity is true.

The bible claims that "god cannot be tempted, nor does he tempt anyone". Another verse claims that "Jesus was tempted, as we are, yet without sin".

How is this even possible IF "Jesus was also god"?

Some christians say, "Well, it was the human part of Jesus that was tempted." It still wasn't the "god part". In fact, the "god part" couldn't be tempted.

So, the second question is, . . . in what way can this "god" be a fair judge if it is completely unable to understand what it is even like to "sin"?

Some christians say, "Well, he WAS tempted, but was able to overcome it". For me, that is a rationalization that doesn't actually address the issue. Let's say that you are a STAUNCHLY heterosexual male who despises anyone gay. Perhaps, one evening, you are out on the town and a gay man comes up to you and propositions you with what you found to be the most disgusting sexual acts you can think of and promises you that you will get immense pleasure from it. Would that actually tempt you? Or, say that you LOVE your sweet baby girl and someone says they'll give you $1,000 to kill her. Are you tempted?

This is the true issue with "Jesus was tempted.....". Before a temptation can actually be legitimate, the temptation has to be something you would actually desire. The Staunchly hetero man [married] being propositioned by an extremely attractive woman for "a night he will forget, and will never get caught". In other words, . . . Jesus would have had to actually DESIRE each of our "sins", and in some cases, even the DESIRE is considered "a sin" with the christian god. So, before you can say "Jesus was tempted as we are. . . .", you must accept a god who would have WANTED to do . . . even some pretty disgusting things. That he didn't is irrelevant [as I said, with some, even the thought of it is "sin"].

Comments?
We all are limited in our abilities to both understand and express ourselves accurately. Not because we are incapable mentally, but because human language is imprecise. That is why scripture interpretation is a tricky subject. The term "tempted" is also translated "tested" or "tried". There exists both a subjective and objective view with all of these words and one cannot reason properly when drifting from one sense of the word to the other. I can test a car tire by driving on it but the more extreme the test conditions, the more I tempt the tire to give way.

So words are fallible and the intentions can be misinterpreted. For example, I can be tempted to eat a rock disguised as a piece of chocolate by someone from the outside playing a joke. But knowing I don't eat rocks, I would never actually be tempted on the inside of myself to eat a rock. Therefore it is possible to be both at once tempted, yet not ever tempted.

Speaking as a Christian and presumably guided by the Holy Spirit, I will tell you in my own words what the scripture means when saying God tempts no one and will not be tempted by anyone. It simply means that God knows the Truth as only a Creator would and is therefore never guessing from such a perspective. It is meant to be about understanding what Holiness is and the implications thereof.
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08-07-2013, 08:46 AM
RE: Questions for Theists: God and Temptation
what is the point of this thread exactly??? to justify jesus or u

if it is about jesus, how about he died

and if it is for the idea, why would he matter when he is like anyone, how the name jesus would still mean anything

the problem with ur ways of thinking u theists, is what u cant but see negative as the reference to what exist

u r unable to understand that only positive is present

n if u mean some powers of jesus that make u attached to his life, then what r u doing in this forum ???

i understood that the forum owner is meaning to protect atheists people like me from ur kind and ur powers
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08-07-2013, 09:01 AM
RE: Questions for Theists: God and Temptation
(08-07-2013 08:46 AM)absols Wrote:  what is the point of this thread exactly??? to justify jesus or u

if it is about jesus, how about he died

and if it is for the idea, why would he matter when he is like anyone, how the name jesus would still mean anything

the problem with ur ways of thinking u theists, is what u cant but see negative as the reference to what exist

u r unable to understand that only positive is present

n if u mean some powers of jesus that make u attached to his life, then what r u doing in this forum ???

i understood that the forum owner is meaning to protect atheists people like me from ur kind and ur powers

Dude, DeavonReye is an atheist.

And I still have no fucking idea what you are trying to say.

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08-07-2013, 09:05 AM
RE: Questions for Theists: God and Temptation
(08-07-2013 08:46 AM)absols Wrote:  what is the point of this thread exactly??? to justify jesus or u

if it is about jesus, how about he died

and if it is for the idea, why would he matter when he is like anyone, how the name jesus would still mean anything

the problem with ur ways of thinking u theists, is what u cant but see negative as the reference to what exist

u r unable to understand that only positive is present

n if u mean some powers of jesus that make u attached to his life, then what r u doing in this forum ???

i understood that the forum owner is meaning to protect atheists people like me from ur kind and ur powers

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08-07-2013, 09:11 AM
RE: Questions for Theists: God and Temptation
LOL. . . . Castle. :-D
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08-07-2013, 09:39 AM
RE: Questions for Theists: God and Temptation
(08-07-2013 09:01 AM)Tartarus Sauce Wrote:  
(08-07-2013 08:46 AM)absols Wrote:  what is the point of this thread exactly??? to justify jesus or u

if it is about jesus, how about he died

and if it is for the idea, why would he matter when he is like anyone, how the name jesus would still mean anything

the problem with ur ways of thinking u theists, is what u cant but see negative as the reference to what exist

u r unable to understand that only positive is present

n if u mean some powers of jesus that make u attached to his life, then what r u doing in this forum ???

i understood that the forum owner is meaning to protect atheists people like me from ur kind and ur powers

Dude, DeavonReye is an atheist.

And I still have no fucking idea what you are trying to say.

it is amazing the insolence u can do by meaning being alone

the only atheist form u mean, is the word dude, this is ur level of crap atheism and u dont care at all for the cheap it looks

an atheist cant mean discussing jesus the person, n impossible for an atheist to know the concept of sin or temptation

for u there is nothing else, so u can call urself buddhist or rebel or philosopher even it is easy since nothing else but ur god and craps co
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08-07-2013, 09:50 AM
RE: Questions for Theists: God and Temptation
absols, I can surmise that English isn't your first language. The first line in the OP stipulates a "for the sake of argument". Not sure if you were aware of this technique or not.
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08-07-2013, 10:31 AM
RE: Questions for Theists: God and Temptation
(08-07-2013 08:22 AM)childeye Wrote:  We all are limited in our abilities to both understand and express ourselves accurately. Not because we are incapable mentally, but because human language is imprecise. That is why scripture interpretation is a tricky subject...

This may be true, but it *shouldn't* be true. Do you think, if you asked God what a certain passage of the bible meant, that it wouldn't or couldn't be explained to your satisfaction? Why should someone who regularly communicates with God have trouble deciphering what God wants him to know?

Your argument is weak and unsatisfying, because it could be made for any scripture that appears contradictory and for any religion that simply assumes its holy book is true regardless of what it *appears* to say that is untrue or contradictory. If you start with the premise that the bible must be true, you're obviously going to conclude that the bible must be true, but that's the logical fallacy of Begging the Question.

To the OP, the scripture references should have been cited, such as apologist Matt Slick did in his response to this question. His response is also unsatisfactory, arguing that Jesus was both man and god and so he could hold the contradictory aspects of both positions and they wouldn't be considered contradictions... a bit of "having his cake and eating it, too". But at least he cited every fact that he asked his readers to consider.

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08-07-2013, 11:03 AM
RE: Questions for Theists: God and Temptation
Starcrash, . . . fixed.
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