Questions for Tomasia and drewpaul
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11-08-2015, 12:42 PM
RE: Questions for Tomasia and drewpaul
(11-08-2015 12:41 PM)Matt Finney Wrote:  
(11-08-2015 12:38 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  No... not upset. You'll know when I'm upset.

You cherry picking data and explanations to support your assertion while ignoring blatant evidence contrary to your assertion while simultaneously placing it under the guise of "intelligent thought" is offensive to all people who do strive to have intelligent dialog with others.

You are no different than theists or YECs cherry picking data and ignoring evidence. You just think it's okay because you're an agnostic/atheist.

Again, if you want to be seen as credible instead of dishonest, your door has to swing both ways in regards to "intelligent thought".

What data am I cherry picking? What am I ignoring?

I've already addressed that twice.

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11-08-2015, 12:44 PM
RE: Questions for Tomasia and drewpaul
(11-08-2015 12:31 PM)Matt Finney Wrote:  KC, not sure why you're upset. I agree that I needed to add to my post to make my point. Sorry if I've offended you.

The problem with person 3, is that his position is entirely contradictory.

"3: I don't hold the belief that god does exist, but if I had to guess, I would say that he does. "

"I guess that god does exist", is a belief that God exist. It may express a very weak belief, but it is still a belief.
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11-08-2015, 12:46 PM
RE: Questions for Tomasia and drewpaul
Summary:

Cherry picking - a non-absolute, non-100% belief in God = agnostic/atheist
Ignoring - fact that 100% absolutism isn't obtainable

Cherry picking - Even 1% of doubt nulls theism
Ignoring - if the above is true, then even 1% of doubt also nulls atheism

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11-08-2015, 12:48 PM
RE: Questions for Tomasia and drewpaul
(11-08-2015 12:44 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(11-08-2015 12:31 PM)Matt Finney Wrote:  KC, not sure why you're upset. I agree that I needed to add to my post to make my point. Sorry if I've offended you.

The problem with person 3, is that his position is entirely contradictory.

"3: I don't hold the belief that god does exist, but if I had to guess, I would say that he does. "

"I guess that god does exist", is a belief that God exist. It may express a very weak belief, but it is still a belief.

No, that's why I used the OJ example. I don't know that he's guilty, and I also don't believe that he's guilty (I don't want to have false beliefs, I only want to believe things that I know), but if a magic all-knowing genie had a gun to my head and said I had to respond with the correct answer, I would guess guilty.

Same with God. I don't know that god doesn't exist, and I don't believe that god doesn't exist, but if I was forced to guess, I would say that god doesn't exist.
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11-08-2015, 12:50 PM
RE: Questions for Tomasia and drewpaul
(11-08-2015 12:48 PM)Matt Finney Wrote:  Same with God. I don't know that god doesn't exist, and I don't believe that god doesn't exist, but if I was forced to guess, I would say that god doesn't exist.

So, tell me why this is untrue for theists? ...just vice-versa.

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11-08-2015, 12:51 PM
RE: Questions for Tomasia and drewpaul
(11-08-2015 12:46 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  Summary:

Cherry picking - a non-absolute, non-100% belief in God = agnostic/atheist
Ignoring - fact that 100% absolutism isn't obtainable

Cherry picking - Even 1% of doubt nulls theism
Ignoring - if the above is true, then even 1% of doubt also nulls atheism

In order to be a theist, one must hold a belief that god exists. If one admits that he is not sure about the existence of god, even if they think it is the most plausible theory, then they are not a theist.
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11-08-2015, 12:53 PM
RE: Questions for Tomasia and drewpaul
(11-08-2015 12:50 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(11-08-2015 12:48 PM)Matt Finney Wrote:  Same with God. I don't know that god doesn't exist, and I don't believe that god doesn't exist, but if I was forced to guess, I would say that god doesn't exist.

So, tell me why this is untrue for theists? ...just vice-versa.

Right, even though I would guess that god doesn't exist, I'm not a gnostic atheist because I don't hold the belief that god doesn't exist. It would be silly to jump to that conclusion IMO.
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11-08-2015, 12:53 PM
RE: Questions for Tomasia and drewpaul
(11-08-2015 12:51 PM)Matt Finney Wrote:  In order to be a theist, one must hold a belief that god exists. If one admits that he is not sure about the existence of god, even if they think it is the most plausible theory, then they are not a theist.

In order to be an atheist, one must hold a belief that god does not exist. If one admits that he is not sure about the non-existence of god, even if they think it is the most plausible theory, then they are not an atheist.

See how this works?

If you're going by your explanation, EVERYONE is an agnostic. There is no such thing as atheism or theism because, as aforementioned, no one can have omniscience.

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11-08-2015, 12:55 PM
RE: Questions for Tomasia and drewpaul
(11-08-2015 12:53 PM)Matt Finney Wrote:  
(11-08-2015 12:50 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  So, tell me why this is untrue for theists? ...just vice-versa.

Right, even though I would guess that god doesn't exist, I'm not a gnostic atheist because I don't hold the belief that god doesn't exist. It would be silly to jump to that conclusion IMO.

Okay then... per you... everyone is an agnostic and atheism and theism are non-existent.

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11-08-2015, 12:57 PM
RE: Questions for Tomasia and drewpaul
I guess the real question is, "Do you believe there are gnostic atheists?"

If so, please show me where to find a gnostic because I have some questions to ask him/her/it about the upcoming lottery.

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