Questions for martinb59
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21-04-2010, 11:49 AM
 
RE: Questions for martinb59
(20-04-2010 05:00 PM)Unbeliever Wrote:  
(20-04-2010 04:52 PM)martinb59 Wrote:  My comment is so what! What does any of that have to do with God and the Bible. That some believe that means nothing to me and it shouldn't to you.

Aren't you a Biblical literalist, though? If so, then you must admit the existence of other gods. What that "means" is up to you - it's your faith, not ours. omega is just supplying information.

Quote:Because I can find a book that says we didn't land on the moon, or the holocaust didn't happen, doesn't mean they didn't happen.

Here are some sources
<snip>

So let's see all valid sites, all claim some scholarship, some authors. Please!!!! They are all full of crap!

Exactly. They have no supporting evidence. They argue against established fact. But there is one critical difference between those sites and our discussion here.
That is that we are discussing what the Bible says.
For your analogy to be correct, we would have to be evaluating what the sites said as it compares to reality. But we aren't. We are merely discussing what claims the sites actually make, not whether they are true or not.

Quote:Skeptics on this site are on skeptical of what they don't want to believe in and that is not a true skeptic. Be a skeptic of everything or change your title.

I am a skeptic of everything, martin. What makes you think that I am not?
No, you know what, forget it. This is just another pointless insult.

No it's not a pointless insult, no insult at all. What I see is people on this site not questioning the books and articles and people they post that are pro atheist. That you find something in a book the matches your belief without regard to the source is not skeptical.
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21-04-2010, 11:52 AM
 
RE: Questions for martinb59
Who said we pulled something from "a book"? I personally consult from atleast 2 credible sourcess before stating something, and the bible has no other sources to take from so it can be posted 'as is'.
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21-04-2010, 11:59 AM
 
RE: Questions for martinb59
(21-04-2010 11:47 AM)Unbeliever Wrote:  
(21-04-2010 11:41 AM)martinb59 Wrote:  It doesn't affect me at all, and it doesn't mean anything to me, substitute unicorn for god, that people believe in unicorns, pray to unicorns, worship unicorns, doesn't mean unicorns are real. And that God says "People stop wasting your time with unicorns, don't pray to them or worship them " doesn't mean they are real. Hopefully that clears it up.

But it also does not mean that they aren't real, and the way it is phrased - see the quotes DrNekoDR supplied earlier - heavily implies that they do.

I replied to what he said.
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21-04-2010, 12:05 PM
RE: Questions for martinb59
(21-04-2010 11:49 AM)martinb59 Wrote:  No it's not a pointless insult, no insult at all. What I see is people on this site not questioning the books and articles and people they post that are pro atheist. That you find something in a book the matches your belief without regard to the source is not skeptical.

The difference between your sources and ours is that ours are backed up by fact. We - or I, at least - question my sources very heavily. Those which are not backed up by evidence are discarded and not used.
For example, when you claimed that the Hebrew language did not contain a word for "sphere", I went looking. Initially, I found nothing but sites which supported your claim. But then I went to a site which contained information on the Hebrew language rather than on atheism or theism. You can look for yourself: it's Strong's Hebrew Dictionary.
Don't make assumptions about our motives and practices, martin.

(21-04-2010 11:59 AM)martinb59 Wrote:  I replied to what he said.

I know you did. That's what I'm saying. Your response to him was reaching.

"Owl," said Rabbit shortly, "you and I have brains. The others have fluff. If there is any thinking to be done in this Forest - and when I say thinking I mean thinking - you and I must do it."
- A. A. Milne, The House at Pooh Corner
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21-04-2010, 12:26 PM
 
RE: Questions for martinb59
Quote:What are you trying to show with this? The Bible mentions a number of them. Again showing people that belief in a non-existent god was wrong, not those gods are real, you need to learn the difference between God and god. Also since you copied and pasted it, you probably didn't read it says at the "Canaanite religion pre-Judaistic religion"

The Ten Commandments
1 And God spoke all these words:
2 "I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery.

3 "You shall have no other gods before [a] me.


This is the part you are missing, martin. Caananite religion preceded Judaism. The whole reason for the first commandment was in an effort to get the Israelites (who were Caananites before breaking away from Caanan) to do away with the 'false gods' that were worshipped along side YHWH. The only reason YHWH won out as the god of choice was because he was deemed to be the most powerful. Any biblical scholar will tell you this. Archaeology has pointed to this evidence as well.

I added the point "pre-Judaistic religion" because, according to my sources, this is the fact.

The problem (!) here is that you have the belief that the bible was written by god, so its word and content is infallible. On the flip side, I (as do most atheists) believe that the bible is written by man, in a way setting ground rules for how people AT THAT TIME should live. It is not the divine word of god...it is the dictation of scribes, telling the story of a people 2000+ years ago. As unfortunate as things were for them, having to deal with the hardships of surrounding societies (Egyptians, Sumerians, Babylonians, etc.), this book is no more than wishful thinking by a tribe that thought some magical being in the sky was looking out for them (why do you think the bible concentrates so much on Israel)?

martin, we DO our research, we look at our sources. We don't concentrate on ONLY what the bible says (we wouldn't be atheists then). You argue about making valid points...we do make valid points, ones that we search out, not just from the Internet, but from scholars who have shown a thought process change...unlike the mainstream religious types that still live in that cocoon of knowledge that is the bible. Sometimes, to gain more knowledge, you have to cut the cocoon open and let the sun shine in.

(21-04-2010 10:54 AM)Unbeliever Wrote:  No Enki? Sad

Also, what's with the Courier New all of a sudden?

Just wanted to stand out a bit. Is it hard to read? (honestly asking your opinion here...)

All the other fonts are just 'eh' or horribly 'loud' (see Impact.)
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21-04-2010, 12:35 PM
RE: Questions for martinb59
(21-04-2010 12:26 PM)supermanlives1973 Wrote:  Is it hard to read? (honestly asking your opinion here...)

Little bit. Not unbearable, but slightly jarring.

EDIT: I've found, when using Courier New, 10 is the best font size to use. Otherwise the letters look strange and elongated. At 10, they appear regular and are much easier to read.

Like so.

"Owl," said Rabbit shortly, "you and I have brains. The others have fluff. If there is any thinking to be done in this Forest - and when I say thinking I mean thinking - you and I must do it."
- A. A. Milne, The House at Pooh Corner
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21-04-2010, 12:42 PM
 
RE: Questions for martinb59
(21-04-2010 12:35 PM)Unbeliever Wrote:  
(21-04-2010 12:26 PM)supermanlives1973 Wrote:  Is it hard to read? (honestly asking your opinion here...)

Little bit. Not unbearable, but slightly jarring.

EDIT: I've found, when using Courier New, 10 is the best font size to use. Otherwise the letters look strange and elongated. At 10, they appear regular and are much easier to read.

Like so.

I C.

What about this font?
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21-04-2010, 01:09 PM
RE: Questions for martinb59
(21-04-2010 12:42 PM)supermanlives1973 Wrote:  
(21-04-2010 12:35 PM)Unbeliever Wrote:  
(21-04-2010 12:26 PM)supermanlives1973 Wrote:  Is it hard to read? (honestly asking your opinion here...)

Little bit. Not unbearable, but slightly jarring.

EDIT: I've found, when using Courier New, 10 is the best font size to use. Otherwise the letters look strange and elongated. At 10, they appear regular and are much easier to read.

Like so.

I C.

What about this font?

That's fine. I like that one, actually.

"Owl," said Rabbit shortly, "you and I have brains. The others have fluff. If there is any thinking to be done in this Forest - and when I say thinking I mean thinking - you and I must do it."
- A. A. Milne, The House at Pooh Corner
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21-04-2010, 02:50 PM
RE: Questions for martinb59
Martinb by being a fundamentalist you must take every word literally. Everything has been said about the topic of polytheism from all of us atheist on here, so I am not going to be repetitive.
A new question is.... Martinb why does god never do anything? No miracles or proof of god has ever happened in my life time I am sure of that.
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21-04-2010, 04:31 PM
 
RE: Questions for martinb59
(21-04-2010 12:26 PM)supermanlives1973 Wrote:  
Quote:What are you trying to show with this? The Bible mentions a number of them. Again showing people that belief in a non-existent god was wrong, not those gods are real, you need to learn the difference between God and god. Also since you copied and pasted it, you probably didn't read it says at the "Canaanite religion pre-Judaistic religion"

The Ten Commandments
1 And God spoke all these words:
2 "I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery.

3 "You shall have no other gods before [a] me.


This is the part you are missing, martin. Caananite religion preceded Judaism. The whole reason for the first commandment was in an effort to get the Israelites (who were Caananites before breaking away from Caanan) to do away with the 'false gods' that were worshipped along side YHWH. The only reason YHWH won out as the god of choice was because he was deemed to be the most powerful. Any biblical scholar will tell you this. Archaeology has pointed to this evidence as well.

I added the point "pre-Judaistic religion" because, according to my sources, this is the fact.

The problem (!) here is that you have the belief that the bible was written by god, so its word and content is infallible. On the flip side, I (as do most atheists) believe that the bible is written by man, in a way setting ground rules for how people AT THAT TIME should live. It is not the divine word of god...it is the dictation of scribes, telling the story of a people 2000+ years ago. As unfortunate as things were for them, having to deal with the hardships of surrounding societies (Egyptians, Sumerians, Babylonians, etc.), this book is no more than wishful thinking by a tribe that thought some magical being in the sky was looking out for them (why do you think the bible concentrates so much on Israel)?

martin, we DO our research, we look at our sources. We don't concentrate on ONLY what the bible says (we wouldn't be atheists then). You argue about making valid points...we do make valid points, ones that we search out, not just from the Internet, but from scholars who have shown a thought process change...unlike the mainstream religious types that still live in that cocoon of knowledge that is the bible. Sometimes, to gain more knowledge, you have to cut the cocoon open and let the sun shine in.

(21-04-2010 10:54 AM)Unbeliever Wrote:  No Enki? Sad

Also, what's with the Courier New all of a sudden?

Just wanted to stand out a bit. Is it hard to read? (honestly asking your opinion here...)

All the other fonts are just 'eh' or horribly 'loud' (see Impact.)

This is the last time I will respond to this issue. I am talking about the Biblical version of this issue and the proper way to read the Bible.

Exegesis is what I am talking about. This is from Answers.com, not A Biblical site. This is a Latin term relating to correct Biblical understanding. It means literally 'to lead out'. In the context of studying the Bible it means to get out of the text what the text is saying. This may include a number of things to aid the process such as reading the context in the chapter, in the particular book as a whole eg. Jeremiah or Matthew and even where it fits within the whole Bible. It may also include cultural awareness, the timing of the writing, and identifying the author and even the target audience.

The term eisexegesis is often used to contrast with exegesis. This means to 'read into' the text something that is not there and may often include the practice of de-contextualization or out of context quoting. In relation to the Bible (or any other piece of writing), the former is of course the correct method to achieve understanding, while the latter is not as it imposes a bias or personal view from the outside, rather than letting the document speak for itself.

Genesis 1
1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
So what do we know; God created everything, God multiples times in the Bible says He is the only God, He said In the Book of Revelation “I am the Alpha and Omega, the first and the last.” How many firsts and lasts can there be? One! So according to the Bible there is one God. Not open for debate, done deal.

Now we have the polytheist idea that people have brought up on this site. And one of the most ridiculous quotes “The only reason YHWH won out as the god of choice was because he was deemed to be the most powerful. Any biblical scholar will tell you this. Archaeology has pointed to this evidence as well.” Someone may believe that, but that person is ignorant. How could the God who created everything even be in a Tug-of-War! You are reading into what you want it to say, and that eisexegesis.
(21-04-2010 02:50 PM)omega21 Wrote:  Martinb by being a fundamentalist you must take every word literally. Everything has been said about the topic of polytheism from all of us atheist on here, so I am not going to be repetitive.
A new question is.... Martinb why does god never do anything? No miracles or proof of god has ever happened in my life time I am sure of that.

God does show you proof you choose to call it evolution.
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