Questions for martinb59
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22-04-2010, 06:26 PM
RE: Questions for martinb59
(22-04-2010 06:10 PM)martinb59 Wrote:  Maybe I can be be an atheist!

Join me, and together we shall rule the universe...

Quote:I had no idea who Gaia was and I had no idea what "deus ex machina" was, and with 30 seconds of internet searching to prove to Unbeliever that it was not a "a nice deus ex machina ending."

You misunderstood what I meant by "nice". I mean that it's a handy tool for video game makers looking for an impressive final boss. You know, after the main villain has (apparently) been defeated. There always has to be a big monster-type thing.

EDIT: And you didn't know what deus ex machina was? Weird. Maybe I just read more than most people... I knew about it for a long time. I hate it when it's used in literature... supremely annoying. It feels like the author copped out on you. But in the context of video games, I can put up with it.

"Owl," said Rabbit shortly, "you and I have brains. The others have fluff. If there is any thinking to be done in this Forest - and when I say thinking I mean thinking - you and I must do it."
- A. A. Milne, The House at Pooh Corner
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22-04-2010, 06:57 PM
 
RE: Questions for martinb59
Quote:I came up with what I wrote, the internet and ignorance is a great thing! (sorry Super if it offends you).

Not sure what you mean by this, martin, but 'you're forgiven'? Huh

It would be ignorant of anyone to NOT research other points of view. You are forgetting that most of us on this site (heck, probably most Atheists in the world) were religious at one point, so we WERE 'ignorant' of any facts aside from what religion dicated to us.

The sole fact why I'M an Atheist is because I decided NOT to be ignorant anymore, to drill into the reason WHY these religions exist, and what the motives were of the people who wrote the religious texts that so many people falsely believe in. If analyzing data and coming to sensible conclusions is ignorant, then I must be the horse's ass of ignorance. I wear that title with pride! Smile

As for where I get my info, you'll be happy to know that I didn't get it from Wikipedia but rather a RELIGIOUS site, and from my new reference point, Encyclopedia Britannica. I've started using EB because of your criticism, so be proud that you've up'd the ante on knowledge source, which I have rasied the bar on as well. EB is well known to be reviewed by scholars from various educational branches, peer-reviewed, like most well known, well accepted scientific concepts.
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22-04-2010, 07:15 PM
 
RE: Questions for martinb59
(22-04-2010 06:26 PM)Unbeliever Wrote:  
(22-04-2010 06:10 PM)martinb59 Wrote:  Maybe I can be be an atheist!

Join me, and together we shall rule the universe...

Quote:I had no idea who Gaia was and I had no idea what "deus ex machina" was, and with 30 seconds of internet searching to prove to Unbeliever that it was not a "a nice deus ex machina ending."

You misunderstood what I meant by "nice". I mean that it's a handy tool for video game makers looking for an impressive final boss. You know, after the main villain has (apparently) been defeated. There always has to be a big monster-type thing.

EDIT: And you didn't know what deus ex machina was? Weird. Maybe I just read more than most people... I knew about it for a long time. I hate it when it's used in literature... supremely annoying. It feels like the author copped out on you. But in the context of video games, I can put up with it.

I have never heard that term, what I wrote totally came from Wikipedia, look it up and you will see the quotes. My point was you said "a nice deus ex machina ending." I didn't know what that term meant AT ALL!!! So I copied and pasted based on me wanting to prove that it was not "a nice deus ex machina ending." and I did. Which is what happens on this site, you are atheists, everything you do and read and say and believe is based on that, it is filtered through your atheist glasses. It is not free thinking, it is atheist thinking!
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22-04-2010, 09:00 PM
RE: Questions for martinb59
(22-04-2010 07:15 PM)martinb59 Wrote:  I have never heard that term, what I wrote totally came from Wikipedia, look it up and you will see the quotes. My point was you said "a nice deus ex machina ending." I didn't know what that term meant AT ALL!!! So I copied and pasted based on me wanting to prove that it was not "a nice deus ex machina ending." and I did. Which is what happens on this site, you are atheists, everything you do and read and say and believe is based on that, it is filtered through your atheist glasses. It is not free thinking, it is atheist thinking!

Am I the only one who is still not following? Unbeliever commented that often times in video games, deus ex machina is used, which is true, and gets annoying. It's a nice tool to wrap things up. It's been a while since I play Oblivion, but I think they used deus ex machina, where we had to flight a giant demon-boss, sent into the human world via an evil cult wanting world domination. Well, he is big, mean, an indestructible. Luckily for you, turns out your friend has a secret ability to turn into an equally big, mean, an indestructible dragon. So, yeah, the day is saved.

At the end of Okami(Don't laugh, it's an awesome game), our heroine is all but defeated but the evil seal pup of doom, when everyone in the world starts to pray for her, and then she miraculously heals, and defeats evil seal pup of doom.

I'm not sure if this is exactly what what Unbeliever was getting at, but you want the final battle to long and suspenseful. Deus ex machina, although taking away from the overall plot, is often used to attain this.

I don't believe Jesus is the son of God until I see the long form birth certificate!
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22-04-2010, 10:09 PM
RE: Questions for martinb59
(22-04-2010 07:15 PM)martinb59 Wrote:  I have never heard that term, what I wrote totally came from Wikipedia, look it up and you will see the quotes. My point was you said "a nice deus ex machina ending." I didn't know what that term meant AT ALL!!! So I copied and pasted based on me wanting to prove that it was not "a nice deus ex machina ending." and I did.

Well, no. Like I said in the post you quoted, you misunderstood what I meant by "nice".
(22-04-2010 09:00 PM)ashley.hunt60 Wrote:  At the end of Okami(Don't laugh, it's an awesome game)

Anyone laughs at Okami, I will personally castrate them. ****in' amazing game.

Quote:I'm not sure if this is exactly what what Unbeliever was getting at, but you want the final battle to long and suspenseful. Deus ex machina, although taking away from the overall plot, is often used to attain this.

Yep, that's it.

"Owl," said Rabbit shortly, "you and I have brains. The others have fluff. If there is any thinking to be done in this Forest - and when I say thinking I mean thinking - you and I must do it."
- A. A. Milne, The House at Pooh Corner
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22-04-2010, 11:10 PM (This post was last modified: 23-04-2010 12:19 AM by Green.)
RE: Questions for martinb59
(22-04-2010 07:15 PM)martinb59 Wrote:  So I copied and pasted based on me wanting to prove that it was not "a nice deus ex machina ending." and I did. Which is what happens on this site, you are atheists, everything you do and read and say and believe is based on that, it is filtered through your atheist glasses. It is not free thinking, it is atheist thinking!

You clearly have no idea how ironic and hilarious this paragraph is.

You should visit this website here... It will do you good I think.

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23-04-2010, 06:34 AM
 
RE: Questions for martinb59
Quote:I have never heard that term, what I wrote totally came from Wikipedia, look it up and you will see the quotes. My point was you said "a nice deus ex machina ending." I didn't know what that term meant AT ALL!!! So I copied and pasted based on me wanting to prove that it was not "a nice deus ex machina ending." and I did. Which is what happens on this site, you are atheists, everything you do and read and say and believe is based on that, it is filtered through your atheist glasses. It is not free thinking, it is atheist thinking!

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26-04-2010, 09:54 AM
 
RE: Questions for martinb59
I like stories with machine gods, they're always so much more interesting that way.

Martin why are you a Christian? and why do you think that I am an atheist?
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26-04-2010, 02:18 PM
 
RE: Questions for martinb59
(26-04-2010 09:54 AM)Ceryle Wrote:  I like stories with machine gods, they're always so much more interesting that way.

Martin why are you a Christian? and why do you think that I am an atheist?

I will give you a brief history. I was raised Catholic, but never really liked the whole scene, I went because my made parents made me, I stopped going when I turned 18. Between the ages of 18 and 21, I was doing the usual party/bar scene; I got tired of hanging out with “bar skanks” and decided to find a “good girl”, what better place to find one than at a church. The Pastor made the point that you will be dead a lot longer than you will be alive. There is no disputing that so I started to examine all religions including the possibility that there was no God. My dad is a Doctor, Anesthesiologist, I have been in the operating room since I was a kid, I have seen the body opened up from head to toe, I have been around science my entire life, and the idea that there is no God was just about the most ridiculous idea I had heard. So I went on a journey to find God.
I was in college and I took a world religion class that gave me an overview of most religions, I took it to the next level and started attending all sorts of services, meetings, debates, and seminars. This was before the internet so I had to crack the books and go to the place where these people would hang out, I went to synagogues, churches, middle of the desert, from Krishna’s to Native American Religions I went to as many as I could and I went with an empty mind, I went to learn about them and not to try and prove them wrong. Once I narrowed that list down I examined their history, their leaders, and their books in an effort to determine which one I thought was true. The one that I liked the most was Native American Spirituality, but I found no real evidence of it being true. The one that had the most credibility was Biblical Christianity.

As to why you are an atheist, don't know, you tell me. My opinion from all the atheists I have met, talked, or blogged with, is that they don't want to be under a Gods authority. Because of that belief they try to disprove Gods existence. They do not go where the evidence leads them because they don't examine the other side. They say they do but they don't. I can tell based on the questions, refutations, and beliefs that they hold. For example the idea that prayer doesn't work. They have no idea what prayer is, how it should be applied, what the purpose is etc, so instead of looking into it to find out what prayer is they say "Show me scientific proof" "Cut off a guys arm and pray to have it put back on" If prayer worked the way atheist believe, I would be married to Carmen Electra, living in a mansion, driving a Lamborghini, nobody would die, no one would get sick. Yet they will pray for those things and when they don't happen they say "See prayer doesn't work and God doesn't exist because Jesus says ask for anything in my name and it will be given to you" That is just one of many things that show me they have not explored the other side.

To sum it up in my opinion, you don't want to yield to a higher authority and because of that you try and disprove God without truly looking at the other side.
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26-04-2010, 02:26 PM
 
RE: Questions for martinb59
I would ask how you came to determine Biblical Christianity as being the most credible of the bunch. More so, how you overcame, and continue to overcome, the glaring inconsistencies generated by its doctrine. After all, how might one know God but through his word, and what is the word of god, but the bible? A cursory glance at the document though, reveals obvious faults and outright falsehoods...need I bring up the flood? A flat, circular earth sheltered by a crystal/ice dome? The cosmos being constructed, much as they are, within the span of a week? Humanity's origin? Microbial lifeforms? Miracles, resurrections, virgin conceptions apparently not through asexual reproduction, angels, demons, manifestations, ghosts, spirits, the soul, possession, witchcraft, magic? ...You notice nothing wrong, with any of these things?

You know what I think? I think that Yahweh, is Ahura Mazda; after a couple thousand years of modification and religious adoption. And the bible, is the filtered slag leftover from the adoption of these faiths.

Kind of coincidental that Horus was born upon the 25th of December, approximately 3000 BCE, of the virgin, Isis Mary. His birth was accompanied by a star in the East, which in turn three kings followed to locate and adorn the newborn savior. At the age of twelve he was a prodigal child teacher. At the age of thirty he was baptized and thus began his ministry. Horus had twelve disciples he traveled about with performing miracles such as healing the sick and walking on water. Horus was known by many names such as: 'The lamb of god' 'The light' 'The Truth' 'Gods anointed son' 'The good shepherd' amongst others. After being betrayed by a friend, Horus was crucified, buried/dead for three days, and then resurrected, to ascend unto heaven.

If the atheists that you have encountered have been atheists, because they do not want to live under the dictations of the Christian gods, then you have met some of the vainest atheists that I can imagine.

By default, the greatest number of atheists today, were originally religious. I for one, was not. I challenge religious positions, partly due to my own enjoyment in philosophical discourse, and partly due to my deeply rooted opposition to illogical theories and suppositions. Bluntly put, if there is evidence supporting a flaw within a theory, then I feel almost compelled to repeatedly point it out, until said theory is reformed. Why? Things like that just irritate me I suppose. At any rate, I never bought into the religious outlook on life. Likely due to my own education at an early age, of world mythos. When you have thousands of faiths, all claiming to be the one true faith, and each offering their own outlook on life, that rejects one another, despite having much in common with one another; not to mention the oh so important circular reasoning, and otherwise bronze age, and lower, understanding of the universe; and you have a recipe for a reaffirmation of an atheistic world view. My continued studies within this field have yielded consistently similar results, in line with the conclusion that there is no such thing as a god, outside of the minds of humans. And in response to your summarization, I do yield to a higher authority. Every single day, I abide by the laws that govern our society; set in place, mostly for the mutual benefaction of one another. I try to disprove my own view, continuously, by looking through the eyes of another who has presented me with an alternative; and, if it makes more sense, then I will be forced to adopt said view. If there are consistent flaws though, then I will bash it down repeatedly.

True enough, prayer does not work in such a manner. When prayer does work, it only seems to do so, within circumstances in which it becomes impossible to differentiate the supposed miracle, from otherwise natural occurrences though. Which is why time and time again, prayer has been concluded to not be an effective treatment, for medical concerns, or mundane difficulties. In fact, I have seen studies, concluding that prayer may have an inverse effect upon an individuals recovery, if they are privy to the prayers deliverance. As the drive to get better, may otherwise be subverted by the knowledge that their recovery is being 'watched over from above'. At the very least, there is no detectable difference, between those receiving prayers and praying, and those not.

So, to sum it up, I'm really not sure why you remain a Christian, I suppose the meme just really stuck with you or something.
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