Questions for martinb59
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18-04-2010, 02:59 PM
 
RE: Questions for martinb59
(18-04-2010 02:34 PM)panflutejedi Wrote:  
(18-04-2010 01:20 PM)martinb59 Wrote:  
(18-04-2010 10:48 AM)panflutejedi Wrote:  This is a good idea, the "Ask a religionistAngel" thread. I have a few questions for Martin, too, but I would like to ask them one at a time.

Question #1: God is omniscient and omnipotent. True or false?

True

OK, we have question #1 out of the way with a very unambiguous "true" answer.

So, moving right along to question #2:

Accepting that God is omniscient and omnipotent, why does he need religious apologists to make excuses for him? I mean, he's God, right?

That reminds me of a video on YouTube, "Why doesn't god heal amputees" or somesuch....

Seems to me martin is avoiding the questions.
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18-04-2010, 03:06 PM
 
RE: Questions for martinb59
(18-04-2010 02:34 PM)panflutejedi Wrote:  
(18-04-2010 01:20 PM)martinb59 Wrote:  
(18-04-2010 10:48 AM)panflutejedi Wrote:  This is a good idea, the "Ask a religionistAngel" thread. I have a few questions for Martin, too, but I would like to ask them one at a time.

Question #1: God is omniscient and omnipotent. True or false?

True

OK, we have question #1 out of the way with a very unambiguous "true" answer.

So, moving right along to question #2:

Accepting that God is omniscient and omnipotent, why does he need religious apologists to make excuses for him? I mean, he's God, right?

You said true or false, did you not? Next time ask for an explanation.

Not really sure how you tie God being all powerful and all knowing to Him needing apologist to make excuses for Him, must be some atheist logic that I don't know about. He doesn't need apologists the ignorant do.
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18-04-2010, 03:16 PM
 
RE: Questions for martinb59
(18-04-2010 02:59 PM)DrNekoDR Wrote:  
(18-04-2010 02:34 PM)panflutejedi Wrote:  
(18-04-2010 01:20 PM)martinb59 Wrote:  
(18-04-2010 10:48 AM)panflutejedi Wrote:  This is a good idea, the "Ask a religionistAngel" thread. I have a few questions for Martin, too, but I would like to ask them one at a time.

Question #1: God is omniscient and omnipotent. True or false?

True

OK, we have question #1 out of the way with a very unambiguous "true" answer.

So, moving right along to question #2:

Accepting that God is omniscient and omnipotent, why does he need religious apologists to make excuses for him? I mean, he's God, right?

That reminds me of a video on YouTube, "Why doesn't god heal amputees" or somesuch....

Seems to me martin is avoiding the questions.

Hello,

A good point, with the amputees. It should trouble religious apologists that certified "miracles" are always things that could improve on their own anyway (cancer going into remission, for example).

If God (assuming he exists) wants all people to believe in him, then why does he not empower his followers with some very unambiguous and unequivocable evidence? The ability to regrow a missing appendage on amputees by touching them, for example? It should bother Christians that there is not a single word in the Bible that could not have been written by someone living in the 1st century, or that the nature of the universe is exactly as though there were no god. I mean, what is God thinking? Did he create it all, and then decide to play an eternal game of hide-and-seek with humanity? Like a kid?

"Na-na-na, na-na-na, you can't find me"???Big Grin
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18-04-2010, 03:26 PM
 
RE: Questions for martinb59
(18-04-2010 02:59 PM)DrNekoDR Wrote:  
(18-04-2010 02:34 PM)panflutejedi Wrote:  
(18-04-2010 01:20 PM)martinb59 Wrote:  
(18-04-2010 10:48 AM)panflutejedi Wrote:  This is a good idea, the "Ask a religionistAngel" thread. I have a few questions for Martin, too, but I would like to ask them one at a time.

Question #1: God is omniscient and omnipotent. True or false?

True

OK, we have question #1 out of the way with a very unambiguous "true" answer.

So, moving right along to question #2:

Accepting that God is omniscient and omnipotent, why does he need religious apologists to make excuses for him? I mean, he's God, right?

That reminds me of a video on YouTube, "Why doesn't god heal amputees" or somesuch....

Seems to me martin is avoiding the questions.

Not avoiding but answering most on this is like teaching a pig to sing, it annoys the farmer and frustrates the pig. To spend 20 mins on an answer and then have someone reply "No it doesn't" is a waste of time. I know the questions that are a waste of time as most are unable to grasp the concept so I am not going to waste my time on those questions.
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18-04-2010, 03:32 PM
 
RE: Questions for martinb59
(18-04-2010 03:06 PM)martinb59 Wrote:  
(18-04-2010 02:34 PM)panflutejedi Wrote:  
(18-04-2010 01:20 PM)martinb59 Wrote:  
(18-04-2010 10:48 AM)panflutejedi Wrote:  This is a good idea, the "Ask a religionistAngel" thread. I have a few questions for Martin, too, but I would like to ask them one at a time.

Question #1: God is omniscient and omnipotent. True or false?

True

OK, we have question #1 out of the way with a very unambiguous "true" answer.

So, moving right along to question #2:

Accepting that God is omniscient and omnipotent, why does he need religious apologists to make excuses for him? I mean, he's God, right?

You said true or false, did you not? Next time ask for an explanation.

Not really sure how you tie God being all powerful and all knowing to Him needing apologist to make excuses for Him, must be some atheist logic that I don't know about. He doesn't need apologists the ignorant do.

Martin,

There is no such thing as "atheist" logic. There is only - logic.

OK, you agree God is omnipotent, right? So, why doesn't he simply make Satan disappear? Where does evil come from, if God is the ultimate power and glory, possessing of omnipotence and omniscience? This is similar to the old stories of some dreaded (translation: unknown) place that one heard back in the day, where the storyteller always finishes with "None have ever returned." This presents an obvious problem - where did the stories come from? Or, the more contemporary equivalent:

Rule #1 - The boss is always right
Rule #2 - If the boss is wrong, see Rule #1


One does not make a case for a cause by circling back upon the tracks of one's own presuppositions, Martin. Religionists' circular reasoning only leads to their chasing their own tails endlessly.

Doesn't 2000 years of tail-chasing get exhausting?
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18-04-2010, 03:39 PM
RE: Questions for martinb59
(18-04-2010 03:26 PM)martinb59 Wrote:  Not avoiding but answering most on this is like teaching a pig to sing, it annoys the farmer and frustrates the pig. To spend 20 mins on an answer and then have someone reply "No it doesn't" is a waste of time. I know the questions that are a waste of time as most are unable to grasp the concept so I am not going to waste my time on those questions.

Have you ever considered that the reason we say "No, it doesn't" is because it doesn't, rather than us not grasping the concept? Or are you incapable of considering that your position might be wrong?

"Sometimes it is better to light a flamethrower than to curse the darkness."
- Terry Pratchett
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18-04-2010, 03:43 PM
 
RE: Questions for martinb59
(13-04-2010 03:17 PM)omega21 Wrote:  Martinb59 look I had taken two religion classes here at my college. My professors said that in the earliest manuscripts, accoridng to scholary evidence, that there was polytheism in the Bible. Since it has been a year since I took the classes I cannot remember exactly where they were. On the other hand, since this is a small college I do see my religion teachers a couple times a week walking by. So I will ask them when I see them. You need to realize that through translations words were changed to make it more monotheistic. The original authors of the Bible did mention that there were multiple gods, and that Yahweh was most powerful. That Yahweh was more powerful, and stronger than the others. Religion scholars have said this, and my professors backed it up. Are you to say that scholars are wrong? This is not the only thing they refute. Another thing is that the idea of hell originated from Isiah. My student Bible even mentions this one. That the author of Isiah actually mentioned the pit. Which is where all the dead go. Translations made it hell which is where sinners go. There are hundreds of things that scholars have discovered. Student Bibles, the more advanced ones, give this kind of information. People have been known to drop the religion major due to the fact they were scared they would lose their faith. If your preacher majored in religion he may know this stuff too.

All in all, the point is current translations are wrong. If the actual words the original authors, whoever they were, was in today's Bibles then christianity would be totaly different. Christians would be polytheist, and think that all the dead go to the same place. Your turn now Martinb. Trust me bro I have more facts..... Also, I am taking a summer class. I will take another religion class just for fun, and to gain hours of course, just so I can help my side even more. If there are liberal arts college's where you live take a religion class there. I don't think it would be too much different.

I love atheist logic! So the Bible was written by men and it can't be trusted yet a book or teacher can be trusted. I would love to know your teachers credentials, and if they are Bible believing Christians or not. Everyone has an agenda and why would your teachers be any different? Anyone with even slight Bible knowledge knows that what you said is twisted by those who don't believe. Their agenda is to keep you from believing. Erhman, who we watched in video debate, writes books, he makes money of those books, he cant sell a book about a boring topic so he writes what he does. If he was so concerned with getting the information out there, then he should not charge for the book. It is no different with the Christian authors, they should be giving it away also and some do to their credit but most don't.
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18-04-2010, 03:47 PM
 
RE: Questions for martinb59
(18-04-2010 03:26 PM)martinb59 Wrote:  
(18-04-2010 02:59 PM)DrNekoDR Wrote:  
(18-04-2010 02:34 PM)panflutejedi Wrote:  
(18-04-2010 01:20 PM)martinb59 Wrote:  
(18-04-2010 10:48 AM)panflutejedi Wrote:  This is a good idea, the "Ask a religionistAngel" thread. I have a few questions for Martin, too, but I would like to ask them one at a time.

Question #1: God is omniscient and omnipotent. True or false?

True

OK, we have question #1 out of the way with a very unambiguous "true" answer.

So, moving right along to question #2:

Accepting that God is omniscient and omnipotent, why does he need religious apologists to make excuses for him? I mean, he's God, right?

That reminds me of a video on YouTube, "Why doesn't god heal amputees" or somesuch....

Seems to me martin is avoiding the questions.

Not avoiding but answering most on this is like teaching a pig to sing, it annoys the farmer and frustrates the pig. To spend 20 mins on an answer and then have someone reply "No it doesn't" is a waste of time. I know the questions that are a waste of time as most are unable to grasp the concept so I am not going to waste my time on those questions.

Martin,

We are unable to "grasp the concept", because (whatever your beliefs in this matter) you have no credible evidence to support your position.

If you want to be taken seriously while in the midst of rational-minded people, then would it not behoove you to demonstrate the same standards of intellectual honesty (with respect to your beliefs) that are the benchmark for all other endeavors? Such as, the necessity of mutually-supporting and independently verifiable evidence to support a given position?

Would you convict a person for murder without evidence that removes any reasonable doubt of their guilt, if your holy book or a priest happened to say, "That person is guilty"? Oh wait, silly me - that happened already.

Can you say "Inquisition"?Big Grin

Here's another question: The Bible is the infallible word of God. True or false?
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18-04-2010, 03:49 PM
RE: Questions for martinb59
(18-04-2010 03:43 PM)martinb59 Wrote:  I love atheist logic! So the Bible was written by men and it can't be trusted yet a book or teacher can be trusted.

The Bible cannot be trusted to validate its own claims, martin. Stop strawmanning.

Quote:I would love to know your teachers credentials, and if they are Bible believing Christians or not.

Credentials, fine. Sources, better. But their beliefs make not one bit of difference. Again, you resort to an ad hom variant. What someone believes doesn't matter at all. What facts they present are everything.

Quote:Everyone has an agenda and why would your teachers be any different? Anyone with even slight Bible knowledge knows that what you said is twisted by those who don't believe.

HA! The irony. It is to laugh.
From what you've shown us on this site, the Bible is twisted more often and more egregiously by those who do believe, in order to rationalize its incredible failures.

Quote:There agenda is to keep you from believing.

You don't even know if they are believers or not yet, and already you are accusing them of attempting to undermine his faith?
In any case, even if that is their "agenda", agendas don't matter. Facts do. And they have facts on their side.

Quote:Erhman, who we watched in video debate, writes books, he makes money of those books, he cant sell a book about a boring topic so he writes what he does. If he was so concerned with getting the information out there, then he should not charge for the book.

Riiight. So writers of history books shouldn't worry about getting paid so they can, y'know, eat. All that matters is that people read it! It doesn't matter if you go out and starve to death in an alleyway - your book is being read!

"Sometimes it is better to light a flamethrower than to curse the darkness."
- Terry Pratchett
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18-04-2010, 03:52 PM
 
RE: Questions for martinb59
(18-04-2010 03:32 PM)panflutejedi Wrote:  
(18-04-2010 03:06 PM)martinb59 Wrote:  
(18-04-2010 02:34 PM)panflutejedi Wrote:  
(18-04-2010 01:20 PM)martinb59 Wrote:  
(18-04-2010 10:48 AM)panflutejedi Wrote:  This is a good idea, the "Ask a religionistAngel" thread. I have a few questions for Martin, too, but I would like to ask them one at a time.

Question #1: God is omniscient and omnipotent. True or false?

True

OK, we have question #1 out of the way with a very unambiguous "true" answer.

So, moving right along to question #2:

Accepting that God is omniscient and omnipotent, why does he need religious apologists to make excuses for him? I mean, he's God, right?

You said true or false, did you not? Next time ask for an explanation.

Not really sure how you tie God being all powerful and all knowing to Him needing apologist to make excuses for Him, must be some atheist logic that I don't know about. He doesn't need apologists the ignorant do.

Martin,

There is no such thing as "atheist" logic. There is only - logic.

OK, you agree God is omnipotent, right? So, why doesn't he simply make Satan disappear? Where does evil come from, if God is the ultimate power and glory, possessing of omnipotence and omniscience? This is similar to the old stories of some dreaded (translation: unknown) place that one heard back in the day, where the storyteller always finishes with "None have ever returned." This presents an obvious problem - where did the stories come from? Or, the more contemporary equivalent:

Rule #1 - The boss is always right
Rule #2 - If the boss is wrong, see Rule #1


One does not make a case for a cause by circling back upon the tracks of one's own presuppositions, Martin. Religionists' circular reasoning only leads to their chasing their own tails endlessly.

Doesn't 2000 years of tail-chasing get exhausting?

Ok... Let me show you how little you think about what you say. While everyone is free to comment I will only respond to panflutejedi.

I want you to pick anything you think is evil, say murder. Now tell me how you think God should get rid of murder. Obama said he would bring the troops home in a year and create 6 million jobs. How's that going so far, not so good, it is one thing to say something and another to do it based on reality. So tell me HOW you think God should get rid of evil.

BTW I pm'd a person on this site and told them that the problem with evil is where you were going and wow I was right. Same old arguments again, except now I want you to tie your thinking cap on real tight.
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