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19-04-2010, 04:52 PM
 
RE: Questions for martinb59
(19-04-2010 04:48 PM)panflutejedi Wrote:  
(19-04-2010 04:29 PM)ashley.hunt60 Wrote:  PanFluteJedi

This is more my saying my opinion about you, since it's become questionable. You claim to have an I.Q. of 181. Not to open old wounds, but I'm to use this as an example of the burden of proof. You can say that you have that high of an I.Q., but it's true there is no way to verify that, one way or the other. I can't safely conclude that you are, or are not, lying. I'm won't make a claim either way, although since there is no significant reason to believe you are that smart, I will act as though you are not.

Getting back into the more personal aspect of it all, If you truly are as smart as you claim, then it should show. If your posts contain a high level of critical thinking, then I might reconsider my position. As of yet, you have not shown any real critical thinking or reason, so I can't judge as of right now.

Somewhat contradictory, and certainly not anything resembling the benefit of a doubt here........you cannot safely conclude whether or not I am lying, so you will act as though I am lying.Big Grin

I am led to wonder, at what point were you made the final arbiter of what constitutes a "high level of critical thinking"? How is it, that you presume to know what I am or am not capable of?

Maybe I'll leave here and return to MENSA........at least there, no one freaked out when they learned about my IQ test results.

This reminds me of birthers, all screaming about how President Obama is not truly a native-born US citizen, and demanding to see his birth certificate in Hawaii. It became so tiresome for the Vital Statistics office in Hawaii to reply to the birthers, that I heard they even considered refusing to reply to any further such requests. I don't know if Vital Statistics went through with this or not. However, even if they don't, and release the original birth certificate to every last birther, do you know what will happen then?

"It's a fake", "It's a forgery", etc., etc.....

And, I strongly suspect, an identical scenario will play out here, if the messages I am seeing concerning this are any indication.

Keep talking, it confirms my opinion, and I am sure others also.
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19-04-2010, 04:59 PM
RE: Questions for martinb59
(19-04-2010 04:48 PM)panflutejedi Wrote:  Somewhat contradictory, and certainly not anything resembling the benefit of a doubt here........you cannot safely conclude whether or not I am lying, so you will act as though I am lying.Big Grin

I am led to wonder, at what point were you made the final arbiter of what constitutes a "high level of critical thinking"? How is it, that you presume to know what I am or am not capable of?

Maybe I'll leave here and return to MENSA........at least there, no one freaked out when they learned about my IQ test results.

This reminds me of birthers, all screaming about how President Obama is not truly a native-born US citizen, and demanding to see his birth certificate in Hawaii. It became so tiresome for the Vital Statistics office in Hawaii to reply to the birthers, that I heard they even considered refusing to reply to any further such requests. I don't know if Vital Statistics went through with this or not. However, even if they do, you know what will happen then?

"It's a fake", "It's a forgery", etc., etc.....

And, I strongly suspect, an identical scenario will play out here, if the messages I am seeing concerning this are any indication.

I don't mean to single you out. If I claimed to be a genius, I hope everyone wouldn't immediately accept it without question. You're new, so maybe the first part threw you off a little bit. Martin has been debating about who gets the burden of proof off and on for a while. I was trying to turn this situation into an example. You have not provided me with any other evidence for your I.Q. except your word. That doesn't fit my standard of evidence, so I will reject the claim as true until further evidence has been presented. I know I worded it oddly, but the first part was mainly for Martin, I was trying to word it in a way more compatible to his views on the burden of proof.

I go on to say that if you show us that you have the reason and critical thinking skills that we might expect from a genius, that would be decent evidence to support your claim that you have an I.Q. of 181. If you managed you provide real documentation of you intelligence, that would be evidence too. The former seems easier, so that is why I talked about it.

So far you have made some odd posts, but I haven't seen anything substantial, so no, I do not know what you are capable of. I am waiting to to find that out. But this has dragged on long enough.

I don't believe Jesus is the son of God until I see the long form birth certificate!
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19-04-2010, 05:16 PM
 
RE: Questions for martinb59
(19-04-2010 04:59 PM)ashley.hunt60 Wrote:  
(19-04-2010 04:48 PM)panflutejedi Wrote:  Somewhat contradictory, and certainly not anything resembling the benefit of a doubt here........you cannot safely conclude whether or not I am lying, so you will act as though I am lying.Big Grin

I am led to wonder, at what point were you made the final arbiter of what constitutes a "high level of critical thinking"? How is it, that you presume to know what I am or am not capable of?

Maybe I'll leave here and return to MENSA........at least there, no one freaked out when they learned about my IQ test results.

This reminds me of birthers, all screaming about how President Obama is not truly a native-born US citizen, and demanding to see his birth certificate in Hawaii. It became so tiresome for the Vital Statistics office in Hawaii to reply to the birthers, that I heard they even considered refusing to reply to any further such requests. I don't know if Vital Statistics went through with this or not. However, even if they do, you know what will happen then?

"It's a fake", "It's a forgery", etc., etc.....

And, I strongly suspect, an identical scenario will play out here, if the messages I am seeing concerning this are any indication.

I don't mean to single you out. If I claimed to be a genius, I hope everyone wouldn't immediately accept it without question. You're new, so maybe the first part threw you off a little bit. Martin has been debating about who gets the burden of proof off and on for a while. I was trying to turn this situation into an example. You have not provided me with any other evidence for your I.Q. except your word. That doesn't fit my standard of evidence, so I will reject the claim as true until further evidence has been presented. I know I worded it oddly, but the first part was mainly for Martin, I was trying to word it in a way more compatible to his views on the burden of proof.

I go on to say that if you show us that you have the reason and critical thinking skills that we might expect from a genius, that would be decent evidence to support your claim that you have an I.Q. of 181. If you managed you provide real documentation of you intelligence, that would be evidence too. The former seems easier, so that is why I talked about it.

So far you have made some odd posts, but I haven't seen anything substantial, so no, I do not know what you are capable of. I am waiting to to find that out. But this has dragged on long enough.

Ashley,

The fascinating thing about genius, is that it has a tendency to manifest itself in odd ways. And, if you are using anything written here to attempt to discern this, you are committing a grave error.

Again, what good would it do to post my test results here, seeing as you have already made up your mind (for all that you profess not to have done so)?

As I am given to recall, there was once an odd kid wandering around the Tuscan countryside, who had been told by his teachers that he was a congenital idiot, that he would never amount to anything, that he exhibited neither proclivitiy nor propensity for academic excellence. That kid's name was Albert Einstein.

Haven't you ever seen, "Good Will Hunting", Ashley?

Perhaps I neglected to mention that English is a second language for me?

Anyway, I think I will ask Scotty to beam me up................The Atheist Nexus is more laid back than this prickly place..........but then, I haven't told anyone my IQ there, either..........
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19-04-2010, 05:29 PM
 
RE: Questions for martinb59
(19-04-2010 05:16 PM)panflutejedi Wrote:  
(19-04-2010 04:59 PM)ashley.hunt60 Wrote:  
(19-04-2010 04:48 PM)panflutejedi Wrote:  Somewhat contradictory, and certainly not anything resembling the benefit of a doubt here........you cannot safely conclude whether or not I am lying, so you will act as though I am lying.Big Grin

I am led to wonder, at what point were you made the final arbiter of what constitutes a "high level of critical thinking"? How is it, that you presume to know what I am or am not capable of?

Maybe I'll leave here and return to MENSA........at least there, no one freaked out when they learned about my IQ test results.

This reminds me of birthers, all screaming about how President Obama is not truly a native-born US citizen, and demanding to see his birth certificate in Hawaii. It became so tiresome for the Vital Statistics office in Hawaii to reply to the birthers, that I heard they even considered refusing to reply to any further such requests. I don't know if Vital Statistics went through with this or not. However, even if they do, you know what will happen then?

"It's a fake", "It's a forgery", etc., etc.....

And, I strongly suspect, an identical scenario will play out here, if the messages I am seeing concerning this are any indication.

I don't mean to single you out. If I claimed to be a genius, I hope everyone wouldn't immediately accept it without question. You're new, so maybe the first part threw you off a little bit. Martin has been debating about who gets the burden of proof off and on for a while. I was trying to turn this situation into an example. You have not provided me with any other evidence for your I.Q. except your word. That doesn't fit my standard of evidence, so I will reject the claim as true until further evidence has been presented. I know I worded it oddly, but the first part was mainly for Martin, I was trying to word it in a way more compatible to his views on the burden of proof.

I go on to say that if you show us that you have the reason and critical thinking skills that we might expect from a genius, that would be decent evidence to support your claim that you have an I.Q. of 181. If you managed you provide real documentation of you intelligence, that would be evidence too. The former seems easier, so that is why I talked about it.

So far you have made some odd posts, but I haven't seen anything substantial, so no, I do not know what you are capable of. I am waiting to to find that out. But this has dragged on long enough.

Ashley,

The fascinating thing about genius, is that it has a tendency to manifest itself in odd ways. And, if you are using anything written here to attempt to discern this, you are committing a grave error.

Again, what good would it do to post my test results here, seeing as you have already made up your mind (for all that you profess not to have done so)?

As I am given to recall, there was once an odd kid wandering around the Tuscan countryside, who had been told by his teachers that he was a congenital idiot, that he would never amount to anything, that he exhibited neither proclivitiy nor propensity for academic excellence. That kid's name was Albert Einstein.

Haven't you ever seen, "Good Will Hunting", Ashley?

Perhaps I neglected to mention that English is a second language for me?

Anyway, I think I will ask Scotty to beam me up................The Atheist Nexus is more laid back than this prickly place..........but then, I haven't told anyone my IQ there, either..........

Ashley, you nailed this guy, don't let his double talk confuse your assessment of the delusional. He is like the crazy guy who claims he can fly and when asked for proof by flying comes up with excuses. Much like the psychics that try for the 1 million challenge with James Randi. They all have excuses when asked to prove themselves.
(19-04-2010 03:02 PM)ashley.hunt60 Wrote:  
(19-04-2010 02:14 PM)martinb59 Wrote:  
(18-04-2010 10:38 PM)DrNekoDR Wrote:  
(18-04-2010 10:00 PM)martinb59 Wrote:  
(18-04-2010 09:39 PM)panflutejedi Wrote:  
Quote:Sorry you claimed mensa 181 not me you, unless you can prove the claim you made, then you are nothing but a liar and cannot be trusted for anything. So back it up or back off big boy!

My, my - could it be that I have struck a nerve with the revelation (pun not intended) of my IQ?

I must have really gotten under your skin, to have been a primary topic of your phone conference with Unbeliever.

I am flattered.Wink

What if I don't "back off"? What are you going to do? Call me a liar? Oh wait - you just did that, and it had no effect on me.............Sleepy

Sticks and stones, Martin..............Big Grin

And yet, Martin, still you have failed to recognize when you have been defeated, that I am merely toying with you. In what way, you may wonder?

I told Unbeliever what you would do and you did just that. By the way where is, and I am using your whole quote "and end up working on the next way to commit mass murder in a basement laboratory in Langeley VA." I would think that someone that is 181 and recruited by LANGLEY, would know how to spell LANGLEY. Sorry you are a pathetic liar and you have been called out, so prove what you said. BTW that might have been hostile, please let me know if it was.
(18-04-2010 04:29 PM)DrNekoDR Wrote:  "How can got get rid of murder?".... are you serious... I thought god could do anything..

Surely it would be no problem for him to remove the impulse to kill someone of your species from everyones brains and no one would be the wiser. Considering we know somewhat what goes on in someones brain when they consider killing a person.

It should be a simple matter for an omnipotent being.. but he allowed it in the first place so what would compel him to stop it now?. And that raises more questions that negate the character of god as portraid in the bible... no wait... it negates the god of the new testament... it goes right in hand with the god of the old testament...

I also talked to Unbeliever on the phone about this, let's see how it plays out! Ok Vet, what is the impulse to kill someone, it is it greed, lust, wrath, pride, envy? Which one of those emotions or all of them, should God get rid of in order to keep you from killing? Some think abortion is murder should we get rid of that also? What would your life and others look like without greed, lust, envy? I guess you didn't think about that when you said God should get rid of murder. Killing is an outward response to an inward emotion, should God get rid of your inward emotions? What about your free will, shouldn't you be allowed to feel greed and envy? It is easy to say but hard to do because atheists don't think through what they say.


He dosen't have to get rid of the emotions just the mechanism in the brain that causes the violence. This can already be done partly with medication.

Small task for an all powerful being.

Ok, let's cross murder of our list what about other evils, like rape, lying, stealing, etc.?

Sorry if I'm intruding, but I wish to throw my two cents into the ring. Making sure I have your arguments correct, you are saying that our evil actions are caused by our emotions. If god removes our emotions, he takes away temptation, and by extension, free will. This is all correct? Hope so.

My issue with that is that the human mind is far more complex. I think this arises from mt determinist view point, that we are mentally products of genetics and our environment. Presuming there is a god that created us entirely, leaving none of it to change, he implanted temptation in us, and the will power to over come it(Or not enough will power). I have a question, that I'm truly curious about. Martin, do you believe genetics is random, or does god decide your genetic makeup? If a man with red hair has a child with a woman with brown hair, does god decided the child's hair color, or does he just leave it up chance?

And in regards to PanFluteJedi(181 guy), I do think he is pompous, but I'm not willing to say anything else about him yet.

I agree the mind is more complex, the problem is when on a site like this, we all don't have time write all we know on any subject. I need to think of a response that is short and to the point, I will think on it.
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19-04-2010, 05:33 PM
RE: Questions for martinb59
(19-04-2010 05:29 PM)martinb59 Wrote:  Ashley, you nailed this guy, don't let his double talk confuse your assessment of the delusional. He is like the crazy guy who claims he can fly and when asked for proof by flying comes up with excuses. Much like the psychics that try for the 1 million challenge with James Randi. They all have excuses when asked to prove themselves.

I'm actually happy we found common ground. PanFluteJedi is interesting, but he hasn't said anything that made me double think anything. I'm interested on what else he will have to say, if he doesn't leave. However the topic of his credibility has gotten old fast.

(19-04-2010 05:29 PM)martinb59 Wrote:  I agree the mind is more complex, the problem is when on a site like this, we all don't have time write all we know on any subject. I need to think of a response that is short and to the point, I will think on it.

I'll be waiting then.

I don't believe Jesus is the son of God until I see the long form birth certificate!
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19-04-2010, 05:36 PM
 
RE: Questions for martinb59
My, my, my..........Martin smells division, and renews his attack..........I am pronounced "pompous" by people who don't even know me...........I am called a liar, for revealing my IQ.

I wonder what it is about this that (quite frankly) freaks people out?

I think my tutors were onto something, when they separated me from the rest of the class. I remember being upset about it, but my tutors told me, "This will spare you a great deal of pain, for others will not understand".

I must admit, they had the truth of it.
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19-04-2010, 05:46 PM
RE: Questions for martinb59
(19-04-2010 05:36 PM)panflutejedi Wrote:  My, my, my..........Martin smells division, and renews his attack..........I am pronounced "pompous" by people who don't even know me...........I am called a liar, for revealing my IQ.

I wonder what it is about this that (quite frankly) freaks people out?

I think my tutors were onto something, when they separated me from the rest of the class. I remember being upset about it, but my tutors told me, "This will spare you a great deal of pain, for others will not understand".

I must admit, they had the truth of it.

I'm sorry for anything offensive I may have said, none was intended. I admit I shouldn't have called you pompous, and I'm sorry if you have misinterpreted my words to mean "Liar".

I don't believe Jesus is the son of God until I see the long form birth certificate!
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19-04-2010, 05:56 PM
 
RE: Questions for martinb59
(19-04-2010 05:46 PM)ashley.hunt60 Wrote:  
(19-04-2010 05:36 PM)panflutejedi Wrote:  My, my, my..........Martin smells division, and renews his attack..........I am pronounced "pompous" by people who don't even know me...........I am called a liar, for revealing my IQ.

I wonder what it is about this that (quite frankly) freaks people out?

I think my tutors were onto something, when they separated me from the rest of the class. I remember being upset about it, but my tutors told me, "This will spare you a great deal of pain, for others will not understand".

I must admit, they had the truth of it.

I'm sorry for anything offensive I may have said, none was intended. I admit I shouldn't have called you pompous, and I'm sorry if you have misinterpreted my words to mean "Liar".

Please do not insult my intelligence, and seek to behave as though I "misinterpreted" your words. It was Martin who called me a liar, and yourself who called me "pompous"

I "misinterpreted" nothing.

The fact is - I have told the truth, Martin has called me a liar, and you responded by referring to me as "pompous".

Apparently, human consideration and manners have not enjoyed the benefits of much attention here.........on that account, you should both be ashamed of yourselves.
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19-04-2010, 06:04 PM
 
RE: Questions for martinb59
(19-04-2010 05:36 PM)panflutejedi Wrote:  My, my, my..........Martin smells division, and renews his attack..........I am pronounced "pompous" by people who don't even know me...........I am called a liar, for revealing my IQ.

I wonder what it is about this that (quite frankly) freaks people out?

I think my tutors were onto something, when they separated me from the rest of the class. I remember being upset about it, but my tutors told me, "This will spare you a great deal of pain, for others will not understand".

I must admit, they had the truth of it.

Was the bus you went on small and yellow, and do you wear helmet when you ride in it?
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19-04-2010, 06:07 PM
RE: Questions for martinb59
(19-04-2010 05:56 PM)panflutejedi Wrote:  Please do not insult my intelligence, and seek to behave as though I "misinterpreted" your words. It was Martin who called me a liar, and yourself who called me "pompous"

I "misinterpreted" nothing.

The fact is - I have told the truth, Martin has called me a liar, and you responded by referring to me as "pompous".

Apparently, human consideration and manners have not enjoyed the benefits of much attention here.........on that account, you should both be ashamed of yourselves.

Dammit! I just laughed so hard I think I peed a little!!

If you don't want to be called pompous and childish, don't say pompous and childish things. You are impressing noone by claiming genius, and comparing yourself to Albert Einstein.

Nuff said.

Just visiting.

-SR
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