Questions for 'militarists'
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
22-04-2012, 11:18 PM
Questions for 'militarists'
This thread is specifically for individuals who hold the military, and people who serve in the military to a high regard - if you see a photo of a soldier in Iraq or Afghanistan you promptly reply to it with "God bless", 'true hero", etc.

1. Is it partly due to the fact that they're selling their bodies to the state and can die?
1b. If the state needed crab fishermen and the death toll was fairly considerable - would those people be considered heroes in your eyes?

2. Is it due to the belief that other nations truly need assistance through force, and the soldier is a humanitarian?
2b. How much do the civilian death tolls impact your views?

3. Is it due to the belief that the soldiers are preventing murderers from propagating and spilling into domestic lands?

4. Is it due to the belief that becoming a soldier is the only recourse for down trodden (unemployed, drop out, etc), and so should be respected in a sense?

5. Is it due to the belief that becoming a soldier requires unique and unprecedented skill and character and should be respected and admired?
5b. Would evidence of those skills being put towards purely for profit motives for individuals back domestically change your views?
5c. Would the evidence of those skills being put towards pain and suffering of civilians change your views?

6. Is it due to the belief that weapons hold some reverence, and people who posses weapons, and who are trained with them, should be revered?

If someone has some more question, feel fre to post them below.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
23-04-2012, 08:55 AM
RE: Questions for 'militarists'
I hold veterans in higher regard than civilians but not for any of the reasons you listed, nor do I call them heroes or say "Zeus Bless them."

An actual veteran of war (not an Air Force Reservist stationed in Kuwait for 6 months) has had to face his own mortality so frequently that he is forced to make a change, to accept death willingly and stop being afraid of it. You can only flinch away from the bullets you hear flying past your head before you are forced to embrace it, or else be paralyzed with fear. This "staring death in the face and laughing" forces changes about a person's values and character. He is no longer concerned with the petty issues that civilians will focus their lives around. People who sit around complaining that their facebook app on their Iphone isn't working. He's got a 1000 yard stare and has seen the true nature of life. You can't truly appreciate life until you stop ignoring the inevitability of death.

This doesn't apply to only soldiers. I hold anyone who has been through hell in the same regard. Anyone who has been held captive for an extended period of time or trapped in a mining cave-in or lost at sea long enough to consider eating parts of themselves. They have all sat at Death's dinner table and sampled the pudding... and it was bitter.

"Ain't got no last words to say, yellow streak right up my spine. The gun in my mouth was real and the taste blew my mind."

"We see you cry. We turn your head. Then we slap your face. We see you try. We see you fail. Some things never change."
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Buddy Christ's post
23-04-2012, 09:00 AM
RE: Questions for 'militarists'
I think you are over analyzing this. Many people who serve in the military have chosen to do so because they love their country. Something that seems arbitrary to many is very important to them. They have chosen to risk their lives to fight for the country they they love and of course, the other people that live in it. I don't see why you couldn't have just a little bit of inherant respect for someone who would choose to do that.

“Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it's time to pause and reflect.”

-Mark Twain
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes germanyt's post
23-04-2012, 09:11 AM
RE: Questions for 'militarists'
I'm not a militarist but I respect veterans, I don't respect anything that has to do with war though, except those who were pulled into it.
Wat in any form is the worst invention of mankind, and I don't know any reason why it could be justified (defensive action yes, but they always start with offensive action which is unjustifiable) so as I see it, veterans and soldiers in general are some sort of victims, and they deserve respect not because being a soldier is honorable (that's bullshit imo) it's because they were tossed into suffering and they survived, and that is worthy of respect. Like Buddy said, it's similar to a kidnapping victim, they are pushed into something that is wrong in so many levels and that hurts in so many ways that going through it is admirable

[Image: sigvacachica.png]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
25-04-2012, 03:52 AM
RE: Questions for 'militarists'
If you are willing to lay down your life in an effort to do good, even if your masters send you to do evil, are you still not deserving of the respect your intentions earn?

[Image: sigone_zps207cf92c.png]

Leonard Nimoy
1931-2015
Live long and prosper.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
25-04-2012, 04:25 AM
RE: Questions for 'militarists'
(25-04-2012 03:52 AM)Cetaceaphile Wrote:  If you are willing to lay down your life in an effort to do good, even if your masters send you to do evil, are you still not deserving of the respect your intentions earn?
that's a risky argument, because if your intention is to do good, but you rely on others to make the decisions about what to do, then your giving away your moral autonomy, therefore the judgement on if your acts fall on to those who made the decision, so you end up being either morally neutral or bad (depends on how you consider forfeiting your moral autonomy)

[Image: sigvacachica.png]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes nach_in's post
25-04-2012, 04:32 AM
RE: Questions for 'militarists'
(25-04-2012 04:25 AM)nach_in Wrote:  
(25-04-2012 03:52 AM)Cetaceaphile Wrote:  If you are willing to lay down your life in an effort to do good, even if your masters send you to do evil, are you still not deserving of the respect your intentions earn?
that's a risky argument, because if your intention is to do good, but you rely on others to make the decisions about what to do, then you're giving away your moral autonomy, therefore the judgement on if your acts fall on to those who made the decision, so you end up being either morally neutral or bad (depends on how you consider forfeiting your moral autonomy)
Aye that is true, but it's also the only way that many of these things can happen. An individual can only do so much, but a group can do the world of good, although it can also do the world of evil, which I suppose is the problem, but apparently unavoidable.

[Image: sigone_zps207cf92c.png]

Leonard Nimoy
1931-2015
Live long and prosper.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
25-04-2012, 08:00 AM
RE: Questions for 'militarists'
(25-04-2012 04:25 AM)nach_in Wrote:  
(25-04-2012 03:52 AM)Cetaceaphile Wrote:  If you are willing to lay down your life in an effort to do good, even if your masters send you to do evil, are you still not deserving of the respect your intentions earn?
that's a risky argument, because if your intention is to do good, but you rely on others to make the decisions about what to do, then your giving away your moral autonomy, therefore the judgement on if your acts fall on to those who made the decision, so you end up being either morally neutral or bad (depends on how you consider forfeiting your moral autonomy)
The military doesn't really allow you to make you own decisions. There has to be a chain of command. I spent 7 months in the South Pacific chasing down drug boats. I didn't agree with the overall mission but performed my duties anyway.

“Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it's time to pause and reflect.”

-Mark Twain
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
25-04-2012, 07:21 PM
RE: Questions for 'militarists'
(25-04-2012 08:00 AM)germanyt Wrote:  
(25-04-2012 04:25 AM)nach_in Wrote:  that's a risky argument, because if your intention is to do good, but you rely on others to make the decisions about what to do, then your giving away your moral autonomy, therefore the judgement on if your acts fall on to those who made the decision, so you end up being either morally neutral or bad (depends on how you consider forfeiting your moral autonomy)
The military doesn't really allow you to make you own decisions. There has to be a chain of command. I spent 7 months in the South Pacific chasing down drug boats. I didn't agree with the overall mission but performed my duties anyway.
I know, that's what I'm saying, the last moral decision a person make is to enter the military (in this case obviously) from that point on all the moral calls are made by those at the top of the chain, if they mess up the whole chain is morally wrong, being this such a risk the idea of entering the military could be regarded as a moral wrong in itself. I'm not sure if this is a valid argument, everything about ethics is hard to define and usually debatable ad infinitum, that's why I said it was a risky argument at best

[Image: sigvacachica.png]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
26-04-2012, 02:18 AM
RE: Questions for 'militarists'
(22-04-2012 11:18 PM)poolboyg88 Wrote:  This thread is specifically for individuals who hold the military, and people who serve in the military to a high regard - if you see a photo of a soldier in Iraq or Afghanistan you promptly reply to it with "God bless", 'true hero", etc.

1. Is it partly due to the fact that they're selling their bodies to the state and can die?
1b. If the state needed crab fishermen and the death toll was fairly considerable - would those people be considered heroes in your eyes?

2. Is it due to the belief that other nations truly need assistance through force, and the soldier is a humanitarian?
2b. How much do the civilian death tolls impact your views?

3. Is it due to the belief that the soldiers are preventing murderers from propagating and spilling into domestic lands?

4. Is it due to the belief that becoming a soldier is the only recourse for down trodden (unemployed, drop out, etc), and so should be respected in a sense?

5. Is it due to the belief that becoming a soldier requires unique and unprecedented skill and character and should be respected and admired?
5b. Would evidence of those skills being put towards purely for profit motives for individuals back domestically change your views?
5c. Would the evidence of those skills being put towards pain and suffering of civilians change your views?

6. Is it due to the belief that weapons hold some reverence, and people who posses weapons, and who are trained with them, should be revered?

If someone has some more question, feel fre to post them below.

"The sword that cuts down a violent man is a life giving sword"
- Samurai philosophy

" Well, I don't love our enemies. And I don't love those who love our enemies. I hate our enemies and I want them killed."
-Christopher Hitchens

"Blessed is he who, in the name of charity and good will, shepherds the weak through
the valley of darkness, for he is truly his brother's keeper and the finder of lost children."
-Jules Winfield, Pulp Fiction

To understand why our men and women serving in our armed forces deserve respect, one has to go back and understand the ways of the warrior.

Warriors have been within human societies for millennia now. They are people of extreme resolve. Often of humble origins, they live their lives preparing to face death square in the eye if and when the time comes. They can be ruthless but have great hearts. They are intimately familiar with violence, suffering, and trials, often scarred by such jagged, ugly, raw obscenities. They seek not fame or fortune. They are driven, intelligent, understanding fear and overcoming it's paralyzingly grasp. They have the thankless job of facing such perils so the rest of us don't have to.

I don't believe in God or the devil, but I do believe that good and evil exist in this world and that evil and evil men are powerful and dangerous. The Samurai warriors of feudal Japan said that the sword contained the soul of the Samurai in them. They didn't value the sword for its ability to bring death but for its ability to give life. By cutting down a violent man they, in turn saved those whom the violent and the wicked preyed upon. In today's modern society it's easy to forget that there still exist among us, dangerous human predators who seek to destroy that which is good and right and prey upon the weak. They vary from small criminal organizations to large scale political movements and governments throughout the world. Therefore, those who do answer the call and assume the burden of protecting society by hunting down and destroying such wickedness is, and should be, held with great honor.

This isn't a light profession, either. These people face the things of our nightmares, so we can sleep soundly. Some do not survive the encounter. Others live with the physical and emotional scars from this for the rest of their lives. And they do it all with an unimaginable selflessness.

And that's why I respect and love them. And you should too. Because everything you cherish and hold dear is vouchsafed for you by warriors.

"IN THRUST WE TRUST"

"We were conservative Jews and that meant we obeyed God's Commandments until His rules became a royal pain in the ass."

- Joel Chastnoff, The 188th Crybaby Brigade
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like Carlo_The_Bugsmasher_Driver's post
Post Reply
Forum Jump: