Questions for the Christian believer
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
24-12-2011, 09:15 AM
RE: Questions for the Christian believer
(24-12-2011 12:09 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  Hey dude, thanks for the compliments! When we first met, I thought we weren't going to like each other very much. I'm glad we both let our cool heads prevail. As for your latter statement, I don't know if God chose you or not. Your regeneration could happen at any time and God could use me for that... in some way...

All of you are great people, and I'm saddened at the thought of anyone - any human - perishing for eternity. The hope that God may have chosen you gives me solace. I truly enjoy this place and you fine people.

I'm not sure if I sense some sarcasm in there, but it doesn't really matter either way.

After 1 year while I co-authored a very active atheist blog and in that time I used *all* my free time debating, my appetite for lengthy pointless conversations dropped. I also need some way to protect myself from strong frustration and disappointment.

This is the main reason why I picked (on) you when I first arrived. Good reputation, guaranteed opposing views, you seemed to be a big target. I wanted to assess your reaction and the forum's reaction to my generic high and low hit range. In case of severe incompatibility, it was more resource-efficient for me to leave and spare myself of future inconvenience. While you did not win my affection (yet) you certainly gained my respect. Not your views of the world, but you personally.

I saw you get pissed and what you do in that case (mission accomplished - sorry) and I saw coming out of the "pissed mist" and readjusting (you did very well - congratulations).

I think I understand what you believe, but I cannot understand how. Not why you're a theist, I understand how that works. I honestly couldn't be sitting in your seat without going "WTF, God? WTF?" every 30 seconds.

Do you see no problem with the fact that god created a huge population of conscious eternal souls with the a-priori intention of tormenting a huge majority of them for all eternity? How does the fact that you are one of the very few who go to heaven make everything right for the rest of us?

No. Not the rest of us. I swear I am not lying to you. I lived all my life as a good christian. Even now, when I am an atheist, my life is in many ways more honorable than it used to be when I was a christian. Not at the surface. I was born in a kind and decent family and they raised me to be like them. Not because god says so. Because it's the right thing to do. I have no enemies. I put a lot of effort in helping people who are not my friends. I have a happy wife. I am a good son, grandson and brother and I will try my absolute best to be a good father when that will happen.

Regardless of all that, I do not believe in a god. I did not choose to become an atheist and I prayed with all my faith to get some answers for my questions. My fight against becoming an atheist was life shattering and, when I couldn't fall any lower, I started picking my pieces and rebuilding. Now I finally know myself and I can tell you that I will probably stay an atheist for the rest of my life. No death bed conversion, not even if my loved ones start dying.

Why do I deserve to burn in hell eternally? I would never do that if I were all-powerful. I would never create the ones who I know will go to hell and if I give them free will, I would find a more merciful way to deal with horrible rioters like me, Exormai, The_Observer and the rest of this forum. My parents taught me a better morality. Why is my morality more merciful than god's?

This is where I don't and I don't hope to ever understand you.

Oh, no Hallucinations 4:11 says the 'gilded sheep should be stewed in rat blood' but Morons 5:16 contradicts it. (Chas)

I would never shake a baby unless the recipe requires it.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 5 users Like Malleus's post
24-12-2011, 09:16 AM
RE: Questions for the Christian believer

It was just a fucking apple man, we're sorry okay? Please stop the madness Laugh out load
~Izel
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
24-12-2011, 11:56 AM
RE: Questions for the Christian believer
(24-12-2011 09:15 AM)Malleus Wrote:  After 1 year while I co-authored a very active atheist blog and in that time I used *all* my free time debating, my appetite for lengthy pointless conversations dropped. I also need some way to protect myself from strong frustration and disappointment.

----

This is where I don't and I don't hope to ever understand you.

Well formulated Malleus. I feel the same. 5 years ago I spent months to convince a creationist. But did not succeed. Thousands of arguments but no progress. Finallly I get sick and bored. My biological background seems worthless in this case. At this moment I use time management. And enjoy replies like yours.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Piet's post
24-12-2011, 12:31 PM
RE: Questions for the Christian believer
(24-12-2011 09:15 AM)Malleus Wrote:  I'm not sure if I sense some sarcasm in there, but it doesn't really matter either way.

No way, man. No sarcasm. I was being completely serious.

Quote:After 1 year while I co-authored a very active atheist blog and in that time I used *all* my free time debating, my appetite for lengthy pointless conversations dropped. I also need some way to protect myself from strong frustration and disappointment.

Wow. Major props, that takes a lot. More fortitude than I could muster.

Quote:This is the main reason why I picked (on) you when I first arrived. Good reputation, guaranteed opposing views, you seemed to be a big target. I wanted to assess your reaction and the forum's reaction to my generic high and low hit range. In case of severe incompatibility, it was more resource-efficient for me to leave and spare myself of future inconvenience. While you did not win my affection (yet) you certainly gained my respect. Not your views of the world, but you personally.

The feeling is mutual.

Quote:I saw you get pissed and what you do in that case (mission accomplished - sorry) and I saw coming out of the "pissed mist" and readjusting (you did very well - congratulations).

lol thanks

Quote:I think I understand what you believe, but I cannot understand how. Not why you're a theist, I understand how that works. I honestly couldn't be sitting in your seat without going "WTF, God? WTF?" every 30 seconds.

Do you see no problem with the fact that god created a huge population of conscious eternal souls with the a-priori intention of tormenting a huge majority of them for all eternity? How does the fact that you are one of the very few who go to heaven make everything right for the rest of us?

Yes, this was something that was very difficult for me to accept at first.

Quote:No. Not the rest of us. I swear I am not lying to you. I lived all my life as a good christian. Even now, when I am an atheist, my life is in many ways more honorable than it used to be when I was a christian. Not at the surface. I was born in a kind and decent family and they raised me to be like them. Not because god says so. Because it's the right thing to do. I have no enemies. I put a lot of effort in helping people who are not my friends. I have a happy wife. I am a good son, grandson and brother and I will try my absolute best to be a good father when that will happen.

Regardless of all that, I do not believe in a god. I did not choose to become an atheist and I prayed with all my faith to get some answers for my questions. My fight against becoming an atheist was life shattering and, when I couldn't fall any lower, I started picking my pieces and rebuilding. Now I finally know myself and I can tell you that I will probably stay an atheist for the rest of my life. No death bed conversion, not even if my loved ones start dying.

I completely believe you, and I don't think morality is just for Christians.

Quote:Why do I deserve to burn in hell eternally? I would never do that if I were all-powerful. I would never create the ones who I know will go to hell and if I give them free will, I would find a more merciful way to deal with horrible rioters like me, Exormai, The_Observer and the rest of this forum. My parents taught me a better morality. Why is my morality more merciful than god's?

This is where I don't and I don't hope to ever understand you.

Well, I believe we all deserve hell; however, God chose to save some of us.

Well... is His morality so bad? He chose to save some of us when we all deserved hell.

[Image: dog-shaking.gif]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
24-12-2011, 12:47 PM
RE: Questions for the Christian believer
(24-12-2011 12:31 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  Well, I believe we all deserve hell; however, God chose to save some of us.

Well... is His morality so bad? He chose to save some of us when we all deserved hell.

If we all went out for a really nice Baby dinner with all the trimmings and blood pudding for dessert, and at the end of the meal I announced that I was going to pick up the check for everyone but you and Queenschosen, would you think very highly of me?

It was just a fucking apple man, we're sorry okay? Please stop the madness Laugh out load
~Izel
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
24-12-2011, 12:53 PM
RE: Questions for the Christian believer
(24-12-2011 12:47 PM)Erxomai Wrote:  
(24-12-2011 12:31 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  Well, I believe we all deserve hell; however, God chose to save some of us.

Well... is His morality so bad? He chose to save some of us when we all deserved hell.

If we all went out for a really nice Baby dinner with all the trimmings and blood pudding for dessert, and at the end of the meal I announced that I was going to pick up the check for everyone but you and Queenschosen, would you think very highly of me?

Well no. But that is your right to choose to do that. And, it would be your own personal convictions that would lead you to that decision.

[Image: dog-shaking.gif]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
24-12-2011, 12:57 PM
RE: Questions for the Christian believer
(24-12-2011 12:53 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(24-12-2011 12:47 PM)Erxomai Wrote:  
(24-12-2011 12:31 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  Well, I believe we all deserve hell; however, God chose to save some of us.

Well... is His morality so bad? He chose to save some of us when we all deserved hell.

If we all went out for a really nice Baby dinner with all the trimmings and blood pudding for dessert, and at the end of the meal I announced that I was going to pick up the check for everyone but you and Queenschosen, would you think very highly of me?

Well no. But that is your right to choose to do that. And, it would be your own personal convictions that would lead you to that decision.

Well I'm mad that your god won't buy my Baby Dinner. Sad

It was just a fucking apple man, we're sorry okay? Please stop the madness Laugh out load
~Izel
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
24-12-2011, 01:25 PM
RE: Questions for the Christian believer
(24-12-2011 12:31 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  Well, I believe we all deserve hell; however, God chose to save some of us.

Well... is His morality so bad? He chose to save some of us when we all deserved hell.

No, man, that's not OK. He created the rest of us just to torment us. No other purpose. No, he doesn't have a purpose for the rest of us. He's all powerful which literally means that he can achieve all his purposes by simply thinking them in his mind. Still, he creates me just to use me and then destroy me. Just to watch me struggle with life for a few short years and after that he can enjoy an entire eternity of me screaming down there. And you're up there watching right next to him. And you're here watching right now to spend your time before your "sweet chariot coming to carry you home" arrives. And I am not all knowing and all good, but I still have to ask: how can you do that and think it's pretty cool?

And:

Let's say that I am a serial killer, but in a gesture of supreme kindness I decide to stop killing black people. All other races will die by my hand: men, women, children, toddlers, newborns and preborns, but blacks are cool. I guess that makes everything allright?
(24-12-2011 11:56 AM)Piet Wrote:  
(24-12-2011 09:15 AM)Malleus Wrote:  After 1 year while I co-authored a very active atheist blog and in that time I used *all* my free time debating, my appetite for lengthy pointless conversations dropped. I also need some way to protect myself from strong frustration and disappointment.

----

This is where I don't and I don't hope to ever understand you.

Well formulated Malleus. I feel the same. 5 years ago I spent months to convince a creationist. But did not succeed. Thousands of arguments but no progress. Finallly I get sick and bored. My biological background seems worthless in this case. At this moment I use time management. And enjoy replies like yours.

I had some marginal success. A few times I debated christianity out of a few tormented people. I guess I had just come out of my torments and my questions and explanations sounded right at that time.

Oh, no Hallucinations 4:11 says the 'gilded sheep should be stewed in rat blood' but Morons 5:16 contradicts it. (Chas)

I would never shake a baby unless the recipe requires it.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
24-12-2011, 02:05 PM
RE: Questions for the Christian believer
(24-12-2011 12:16 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(23-12-2011 07:35 AM)Malleus Wrote:  That's the main reason why he doesn't feel the need to try to convert anyone of us. But as long as we are doomed and he's fine, he is happy with that outcome and he might as well enjoy a ride with us. He is not in danger because god has already chosen him and he doesn't need to be a dick about it because whatever he does cannot change our outcome which can only be decided by his god and not by him and not even by us.
Nah, he's saved anyway, no matter if he preaches or not. His god doesn't need his assistance. He (god) just points a finger and the chosen ones follow

As I said, his theology is one of the most egocentric versions of Christianity. It's fascinating to watch it work in real life.

You have a pretty good understanding of my theology. In my opinion though, it's the most liberating and freeing form of Christianity.

Yes - it frees you from all responsibility. What a shitty, selfish, lazy attitude.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
[Image: flagstiny%206.gif]
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
24-12-2011, 03:20 PM
RE: Questions for the Christian believer
I debate for a year of 12 now with Christians, and I'm tired of it.
Most of them put their fingers in their ears and sing 'lalalala' with their eyes closed.
I don't want to put very much energy in them.
I'm a born atheïst (as everybody) and has never been religious.
I can't image why they think the way they think.

Note: To send this message, no trees cut down,
although there are many electrons severely hindered.
All the bits are reused.

Future World

73 Jim .--. . .---- .-. . .- PE1REA
Email, put amsat dot org behind the call
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply
Forum Jump: