Questions for the Christian believer
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10-01-2012, 09:29 AM
RE: Questions for the Christian believer
84. Why did your god put people on earth and send wicked angels there too? He surely knew that this would be a mistake and that people would be influenced by Satan. You simply don’t put children into a pit of snakes.

For the same reason that God passively created sin. Evil and wickedness are necessary for Christ to have a purpose. As to why He allowed angels this caliber of sin? I don’t know.

85. Equality principles, for example between men and women, are put under pressure by various religions. Are religious scriptures not a source of discrimination? When a woman bears a child and it is a boy, she is unclean for seven days. If the child is a girl, the mother is unclean for fourteen days (Leviticus 12:2-5). The value of a man and a woman translated into money (silver shekels) is different. For example, between the 20th and 60th year, the ratio was 50 to 30 (Leviticus 27:3-4). Making a vow to Yahweh: If a woman is married then it is the husband’s prerogative to divorce her (Numbers 30:9-13). The link provides further examples.

This was a cultural thing. The Bible sets up standards, rules, and compromises to deal with cultural topics. These are also strictly for the Jews of that time.

86. He tells his followers that his work on earth is done and he is ascending to heaven. When he said it, he was lifted up before their eyes and taken in by a cloud so that they no longer saw him. Is heaven above us or did Jesus leave in a UFO?

He ascended to a spiritual realm.

87. Cognitive dissonance is a psychological term describing the uneasy tension that arises when absorbing facts or concepts that are at odds with one’s own beliefs or opinions, or at behaviour that is contrary to one’s convictions. This feeling of discomfort leads one to reconsider one or more opinions or attitudes unconsciously to bring them more in line with each other, to make them compatible. Usually, others notice such a change in opinion or attitude sooner than the person himself does. Does this apply to the steadfastness of a religious belief? Even when there are sufficient arguments to prove the opposite?

It’s possible. I’m going to deny that; however, I think that it’s wholly unlikely given the magnitude and stalwartness of religion.

88. In several passages, Jesus says people must give away their property and live in poverty. Why don’t Christians do so? Does religion then become a question of suffering deprivations, and is this asking too much?

Jesus is teaching a lesson at these times. He’s teaching about how worthless the wealth of this world is compared to heaven and eternity.

89. Is it desirable to raise children religiously? And to do so seven days a week for many years? What is the difference from the indoctrination the communists considered for bending people to the ideas of the Party?

I feel it’s the personal decision of the parent on how to raise their children and to which type of religion (if any) that they’re exposed to. I feel there is nothing wrong with this just like there is nothing wrong with passing your personal moral code to your children.

90. Does it benefit society when children are pressed into all kinds of separate schools? Each denomination can establish its own schools where children are isolated and only hear what their particular church considers to be important.

Again, this is a parenting decision. I also feel that there is nothing wrong with this. In my local area, public schools are glorified war zones, and the only way a child can have safety and a good education is from the private Christian schools.


DONE

...well... for now. I'll look at the non-English questions soon.

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10-01-2012, 09:34 AM
RE: Questions for the Christian believer
Thk's.
For the questions 74 and 78 we are fighting with translation.

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10-01-2012, 09:35 AM
RE: Questions for the Christian believer
(10-01-2012 09:34 AM)Jim Wrote:  Thk's.
For the questions 74 and 78 we are fighting with translation.

No, thank you.

You guys are awesome.

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10-01-2012, 09:40 AM
RE: Questions for the Christian believer
(10-01-2012 09:29 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  90. Does it benefit society when children are pressed into all kinds of separate schools? Each denomination can establish its own schools where children are isolated and only hear what their particular church considers to be important.

Again, this is a parenting decision. I also feel that there is nothing wrong with this. In my local area, public schools are glorified war zones, and the only way a child can have safety and a good education is from the private Christian schools.

There must be private, secular schools. Why would these not be safe?

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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10-01-2012, 09:48 AM
RE: Questions for the Christian believer
(10-01-2012 09:40 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(10-01-2012 09:29 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  90. Does it benefit society when children are pressed into all kinds of separate schools? Each denomination can establish its own schools where children are isolated and only hear what their particular church considers to be important.

Again, this is a parenting decision. I also feel that there is nothing wrong with this. In my local area, public schools are glorified war zones, and the only way a child can have safety and a good education is from the private Christian schools.

There must be private, secular schools. Why would these not be safe?

We have magnet and charter schools... and well, no. They started off as a good idea, but since they are still governed by the state, they end up no better than the public schools and ultimately fold.

We do have really, really good public schools, but they are overtly Christian and allow prayer and Bible studies and such. Because of this known fact, parents that can't afford to send their children to the private Christian schools move to these areas: Zachary, Central, Livingston, and Ascension.

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10-01-2012, 09:51 AM
RE: Questions for the Christian believer
(10-01-2012 09:48 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(10-01-2012 09:40 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(10-01-2012 09:29 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  90. Does it benefit society when children are pressed into all kinds of separate schools? Each denomination can establish its own schools where children are isolated and only hear what their particular church considers to be important.

Again, this is a parenting decision. I also feel that there is nothing wrong with this. In my local area, public schools are glorified war zones, and the only way a child can have safety and a good education is from the private Christian schools.

There must be private, secular schools. Why would these not be safe?

We have magnet and charter schools... and well, no. They started off as a good idea, but since they are still governed by the state, they end up no better than the public schools and ultimately fold.

We do have really, really good public schools, but they are overtly Christian and allow prayer and Bible studies and such. Because of this known fact, parents that can't afford to send their children to the private Christian schools move to these areas: Zachary, Central, Livingston, and Ascension.

I didn't say magnet or charter, I said private and secular.

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10-01-2012, 09:58 AM
RE: Questions for the Christian believer
(10-01-2012 09:51 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(10-01-2012 09:48 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(10-01-2012 09:40 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(10-01-2012 09:29 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  90. Does it benefit society when children are pressed into all kinds of separate schools? Each denomination can establish its own schools where children are isolated and only hear what their particular church considers to be important.

Again, this is a parenting decision. I also feel that there is nothing wrong with this. In my local area, public schools are glorified war zones, and the only way a child can have safety and a good education is from the private Christian schools.

There must be private, secular schools. Why would these not be safe?

We have magnet and charter schools... and well, no. They started off as a good idea, but since they are still governed by the state, they end up no better than the public schools and ultimately fold.

We do have really, really good public schools, but they are overtly Christian and allow prayer and Bible studies and such. Because of this known fact, parents that can't afford to send their children to the private Christian schools move to these areas: Zachary, Central, Livingston, and Ascension.

I didn't say magnet or charter, I said private and secular.

No. Pretty much non-existent.

Central Private is about the only one I know of by title alone; however, they are overtly Christian as well.

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10-01-2012, 11:12 AM (This post was last modified: 10-01-2012 11:15 AM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Questions for the Christian believer
(17-12-2011 09:02 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(17-12-2011 01:49 AM)Starcrash Wrote:  
(16-12-2011 11:28 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  I'm going to try my best to answer these. There are a lot, and it will probably take several days... so bear with me.

1. Where does your god come from?

Is this even a fair question when quantum physics is such a mystery in our observable dimension? We have observed, on the quantum level, particles appearing and disappearing from nowhere. Quantum physics is based on the idea that nothing creates something. If this is observable science is it really that much of a stretch to say that either A) God has always been here or B) God came from nothing?

2. What is your god made of?

This question, like #1, isn’t really fair either. Theoretical science has created a bevy of mind blowing questions that are completely unanswerable and almost unfathomable. Physically speaking, there’s dark matter. We are just establishing its existence. We know it’s there. We can observe it. But, we don’t have the slightest clue what its makeup is. And, who’s to say it’s even anything that’s bound by our laws of physics. And then, we move on to other dimensions and their possibilities… which have the possibility to hold brand new laws of existence and physics that we cannot mentally or physically comprehend. Much like the example of a 3D person entering a 2D world, the 2D inhabitants cannot understand the 3rd dimension; despite the fact that they’re looking at it. These are all thought processes and theories thought up by brilliant men/scientists and they cannot even begin to give a concrete definition or provide any evidence; however, it is believed that this is not only within the realm of possibilities, but it is also very likely. If God is infinite and created all this mind boggling stuff, why is he going to be bound by what we understand as physical matter? I guess the answer is God. God is made of God.

3. What gender is your god? The Bible speaks of a male.

God is referred to in the male gender because of the language of the time. It’s something that people would understand and relate to. God has no gender, but he is referred to as a male because of the social culture of the time.

4. Why did your god need to make the earth?

Humanity and the earth were created for the reason of giving Jesus a purpose and an inheritance.

5. What is the purpose of millions of galaxies?

The soft Christian answer would be so that God could show His glory and His infinite power to us. My answer is because God is a God of order. When God created evolution and set the world in motion, He also created the science behind it. For the earth to be created and eventually evolve into the planet that He wanted, the cosmos had to be set in motion by a grand plan. Big Bang… whatever you want to call it, but the birth of the universe had to have order. As a result of this order, billions of galaxies had to be created in order to enact His plan that would take place on our tiny planet.

6. Why didn't this omnipotent god create the universe in a single stroke with a clear vision in mind?

He did. I assume you’re referring to Genesis 1 and 2. They are written as ancient cosmetology. They are written in exalted language – something completely different that the rest of Genesis. It’s written as something people of that time would understand. There were several stories of creation from different cultures, and that framework is used to explain what God did. The first part of Genesis is not completely literal, as it’s written in a “show language” for the people of the time so they would understand the concept that was being conveyed by paralleling it to the popular stories of the time. (there is a lot more on Genesis 1 and 2 I could write, but the I feel that’s enough to answer the question)

I'll answer more tomorrow.

Sorry, kingschosen, these are poor answers. They didn't come from either the bible or from science... you're either guessing yourself or citing someone else's guesses. But in the interest of fairness, from a debater's standpoint, let me give you some solid answers.

The answer to every question listed above is: we don't know, and we don't have to know. There is an obvious fallacy here called the Argument from Ignorance, where you posit that a lack of answer means that you can insert your own.

When I argue evolution with people like my Christian parents, they ask stupid questions like "so why are people born gay if that's not fit for survival?" and I answer "I don't know. I don't have to know. Evolution works even if we can't explain every single detail. Just because we don't have an answer doesn't mean that the answer is God." This is the same argument in reverse, and I wouldn't dignify it with made-up answers just to satisfy it. You can't posit atheism just because the God hypothesis is lacking details. It's the Nongod of the Gaps argument.

Yes, they are guesses. They are my guesses because, as you said, I don't know and don't need to know. However, I tried my best to answer from what I've learned from science and the Bible. If I just said, "I don't know" I would have gotten crucified for answering like that. So, I'm damned if I do, damned if I don't.

Also, please go into how I'm wrong scientifically. I want to correct this for future understanding.
@Leela
1) I understand the Big Bang, and I didn't say the Big Bang came from nothing. I was talking about quantum physics.

2) I explained why I said "God is made of God". He's made of something we don't understand.

3) Yeah, but in Mid-Eastern culture at the time. Other mythologies =/= the society of the OT people.

4) This is a theistic argument. Jesus does count. I explain theistically why, and you counter with an atheistic answer. You cannot argue atheistically when you're talking theistically unless the argument is atheism vs theism.

In my Christian theology, the purpose of humanity is Jesus; so therefore, the purpose of the earth is Jesus. You can argue from a different theistic point of view, but my answer is rooted in theology and is acceptable based on what is learned in the Bible.

5/6) I explained why Genesis was written like that. I also explained why God didn't just *poof* everything. God created and set evolution in motion.
Oh, and I'm not going to answer every rebuttal to my answers - I'll be here forever. I'll try, but no promises if I'm going to try to answer all those questions plus keep up with my other topic.

I'm not going to get into this much except to point out here, that :

"in my Christian theology", is exactly correct. It is ONLY KC's theology you're getting here, because that is NOT what most Christian theologians would say. Apart from the "felix culpa", ("happy fault"), in Roman theology, the "purpose" of humanity was to love and know and bla bla it's god, not as a "backloaded" justification, (or would that be front-loaded), for the salvation paradigm. If a god created a creature, to "purposely fail" to justify the need for a sacrifice, (which is another problem), THAT is a level of convoluted "systematics" which I never encountered in ANY theology class. No mainstream theologian would agree with that view.

Second, the "god created evolution and set it in motion", is the philosophical position of "Deus ex machina", and THAT is also NOT the Christian position. Bucky "ain't no Christian", but what's going on here is a supposed Christian, delivering decidedly non-Christian views. "Deus ex machina" is NOT what Christians believe. They believe that their god is personally and CONTINUALLY interviening in the universe, and NOT just having set it in motion.

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Those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music - Friedrich Nietzsche
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10-01-2012, 12:49 PM
RE: Questions for the Christian believer
Sorry for being a bit late,someone may have already referred to this but:
Kc,saying things such as ''it's all his plan'' is not really an answer nor an argument.
If he wanted to play with us like with toy soldiers and randomly make us suffer,he should have done it with Non-conscious non-living entities rather than intelligent beings with emotions.

The meaning of peace is the absence of opposition to socialism.
-Karl Marx


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10-01-2012, 02:03 PM
RE: Questions for the Christian believer

Bucky,
That is not exactly true. That IS what this one believes. I know you meant "mainstream" but there are 22,000 sects, so I guess they all think dirfferently. The "Great Watchmaker" belief IS widely held, even thought they don't know it by your fancy Latin name. Tongue You can smack me later.

The angry gods require sacrifice. Now get outside and slay them a goat. Cadet in Terse But Deadly
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