Questions for the Christian believer
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17-12-2011, 03:11 PM
RE: Questions for the Christian believer
@kingchosen:
My husband made me aware that my post looked like an attack or so, which I didn't intend.
Especially on the first question I didn't read your answer properly I guess because I simply reacted to "something came from nothing". Which has to be proven before I can accept that. And right now I still disaggree on that, these particles have another theory (which admitable sounds crazy too), that they are 2D objects in our 3D room, spinning.
Anyway, to take this not too offtopic, sorry for the unintended snotty answer. I rest my case.

cheers

"Freedom is the freedom to say that 2+2=4" - George Orwell (in 1984)
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17-12-2011, 03:41 PM
RE: Questions for the Christian believer
(17-12-2011 09:02 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  Yes, they are guesses. They are my guesses because, as you said, I don't know and don't need to know. However, I tried my best to answer from what I've learned from science and the Bible. If I just said, "I don't know" I would have gotten crucified for answering like that. So, I'm damned if I do, damned if I don't.

No, not damned if you don't. Really, it's OK to say "I don't know." We say that in science all the time.
We also make stuff up all the time - we just don't claim it's true.
It's called a hypothesis. Then we do experiments and gather data. From the data,
we form a theory. Then we do more experiments to test the theory. If the theory
fails a test, we toss it and come up with another one. If a theory passes enough
tests, it becomes a Theory.

But it's OK to say "I don't know" and it's OK to say "I think it may be this or that" and
it's OK to say "If Theory X is true, then Y".

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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17-12-2011, 04:05 PM
RE: Questions for the Christian believer
Chas, then what's the point of me even answering? I mean, this is directed towards Christians and are meant to be difficult, if not impossible to answer. I feel it's implied that the answers are best guesses and/or hypotheses (as these questions and answers aren't answered in the Bible).

Would you really want me to answer "I don't know" or would you rather hear my best answer? Because, I will answer "I don't know". That will save me a lot of time.

@Leela
You weren't being snotty. Please don't feel that way. I didn't feel that you were attacking me. I was just answering honestly about what you said and you did the same for me. Please don't rest your case if you have more to add. Smile

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17-12-2011, 04:28 PM
RE: Questions for the Christian believer
(17-12-2011 04:05 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  Chas, then what's the point of me even answering? I mean, this is directed towards Christians and are meant to be difficult, if not impossible to answer. I feel it's implied that the answers are best guesses and/or hypotheses (as these questions and answers aren't answered in the Bible).

Would you really want me to answer "I don't know" or would you rather hear my best answer? Because, I will answer "I don't know". That will save me a lot of time.

KC, you could try answering with:
"I don't know, but I believe ... ", or
"I don't know, but I feel that ... ", or
"I don't know, but I my faith informs me ... ", or
"It is my opinion that ... ", or
"Many Christians believe ... ", or
"It is a matter of Calvinist doctrine that ... ", instead of answering as if you knew or as though it was fact.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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17-12-2011, 04:30 PM
RE: Questions for the Christian believer
(17-12-2011 04:28 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(17-12-2011 04:05 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  Chas, then what's the point of me even answering? I mean, this is directed towards Christians and are meant to be difficult, if not impossible to answer. I feel it's implied that the answers are best guesses and/or hypotheses (as these questions and answers aren't answered in the Bible).

Would you really want me to answer "I don't know" or would you rather hear my best answer? Because, I will answer "I don't know". That will save me a lot of time.

KC, you could try answering with:
"I don't know, but I believe ... ", or
"I don't know, but I feel that ... ", or
"I don't know, but I my faith informs me ... ", or
"It is my opinion that ... ", or
"Many Christians believe ... ", or
"It is a matter of Calvinist doctrine that ... ", instead of answering as if you knew or as though it was fact.

Ahhh ok. I just thought that was implied. I'll do that from now on.

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17-12-2011, 05:35 PM
RE: Questions for the Christian believer
7. How can an all-knowing god be disappointed in his creation?
According to what I believe, God preordained our failures; however, He still feels emotions towards us and our preordained actions. A possible answer is that He is disappointed that He had to preordain failures to complete His plan and will, so He’s not disappointed in us; rather the inescapable results.

8. Why does your god need people to spread his word, why does he not do this himself?
God has spread His message using different way throughout history. In the OT, the Father did it Himself. In the NT, Christ did it Himself. Now, in the Church Age, we are to do as the Father did and as Christ did. We are one with Christ, so we become His vessels for spreading His word. This is clearly defined in the Great Commission. It’s not that God needs us, we are just His chosen way to spread the message.

9. How can a loving god allow that there is a hell for those who do not believe in him?
I’m going to answer this in two parts. There are two very sharp distinctions in Christian theology – Calvinism and Arminism. I’m not going to go into detail about them, but these opposite beliefs will often cause completely different answers in Christian theology.

Arminians – They would say that man’s free will damns humans to hell. A person’s blatant lack of acceptance of Christ’s sacrifice will commit them to hell. God gives us an opportunity to avoid an eternity of torment through Christ; however, if we do not accept it, then God’s justice is served. It was because of the original fall of man that caused humanity to be damned through original sin, so God, being loving, provided humans with a way to avoid hell – if the person chose to accept Christ.

Calvinists – They say that God chose those He was going to save from hell and those that would be damned. Man has no choice in salvation – the choice of heaven or hell. Calvinists say that God’s sovereignty is complete, and it’s by God’s grace that anyone is chosen for heaven. They say no action of man affects God, and that God has already made His choice. Man’s depraved nature prevents entrance to heaven and God’s grace gives those that are chosen admittance. They believe God created sin and evil in order to serve God’s purpose of Christ. Human imperfection was created and ordained from the beginning, and because of this and without the saving grace of Christ; the unchosen are damned to hell by no choice of their own.


10. If a person is fully capable of saving another but doesn’t do so, we disapprove of it. We call such a person wicked and unethical, and this person can even be punishable in some cases. Why don’t we condemn a god who, according to many believers, is able to save people out of misery every single day but doesn’t do so?

Most Christians believe that God’s will and plan is His own. God’s morals are His own and can’t be held to human standards. God is completely sovereign over humanity, and in order for His grace and goodness to exists; there needs to be evil and wrath – the ultimately justice. (Calvinist)If God saved everyone, then Christ was unnecessary because there would be no evil and Jesus would not have an inheritance (humanity). (Arminian) God wants everyone to be saved, but we have to choose Him. We cannot enter heaven unless we accept the saving grace of Christ; so, God cannot save us from damnation unless we choose to do so.

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17-12-2011, 06:06 PM (This post was last modified: 17-12-2011 06:09 PM by Erxomai.)
RE: Questions for the Christian believer
(17-12-2011 04:28 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(17-12-2011 04:05 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  Chas, then what's the point of me even answering? I mean, this is directed towards Christians and are meant to be difficult, if not impossible to answer. I feel it's implied that the answers are best guesses and/or hypotheses (as these questions and answers aren't answered in the Bible).

Would you really want me to answer "I don't know" or would you rather hear my best answer? Because, I will answer "I don't know". That will save me a lot of time.

KC, you could try answering with:
"I don't know, but I believe ... ", or
"I don't know, but I feel that ... ", or
"I don't know, but I my faith informs me ... ", or
"It is my opinion that ... ", or
"Many Christians believe ... ", or
"It is a matter of Calvinist doctrine that ... ", instead of answering as if you knew or as though it was fact.

I really do think you might not get pressed as harshly by adopting that sort of language to your answers. Of course, when we discuss beliefs, we still want to know how a person has reached that belief. Then, the questions from me are really more of a way of suggesting, "Hey, have you thought about this possible answer instead?" Or, "Ok, but if you believe that way, how does that affect the way you view such and such?" It should be about discussion not word duels to the death. In discussing the things that are difficult to know without doubt, if you share your beliefs and how you reached them and I share why that evidence does or doesn't influence me, then I think both parties change in some way. At least that's what my nascent Humanism wants to believe.

Oh, and my old eyes appreciate the way you answered the questions in your last post. Smile

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17-12-2011, 07:36 PM
RE: Questions for the Christian believer
(17-12-2011 06:06 PM)Erxomai Wrote:  Oh, and my old eyes appreciate the way you answered the questions in your last post. Smile

I meant to compliment you on your formatting also, KC. Or maybe I'm just a liar thief copycat. Either way, it would be nice if everyone put in that kind of effort when answering questions.

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17-12-2011, 08:21 PM
RE: Questions for the Christian believer
11. What evil did plants and animals do that died in the Great Flood? Why is there no separation between primary and secondary suffering?

When Satan brought sin to the earth it permeated its entirety. Sin corrupted all and its curse infected all creation (Romans 8:22). Because of this, nothing is “innocent” and everything is cursed to die. Since plants and animals do not have the knowledge of good and evil, they are finite but still cursed. Our flesh is finite as well as cursed, but since we have the knowledge of good and evil, our souls become infinite. Plants and animals were not chosen for this.

12. Why is your god mercilessly indifferent as to how nature works? It’s eat or be eaten.

I believe God ordain death. Death was a part of his plan and evolution. I also think it serves as a constant reminder to us of Christ. In order for life to continue, there has to be a death; a sacrifice. Like I said before, God is a God of order. His order is ever present.

13. What happened to those people who weren’t familiar with the Bible before it was written?

Ephesians 1:4 says that we were chosen for salvation before the foundations of the world. Jesus’ sacrifice was for all sins – past, present, and future. Those that came before Christ – those that were chosen for salvation – had already had their sins forgiven because of Jesus’ future sacrifice (which was planned from the beginning). There is a place of comfort called Abraham’s Bosom (Luke 16) that the elect went to before Jesus’ sacrifice. Those that weren’t not elect went to a place of torment (Sheol) where they would await the final judgment and be tossed into the Lake of Fire.

14. With 10% to 20% of women having miscarriages, is your god the greatest abortionist?

I personally don’t know why God chooses to end the lives of the unborn. This is His choice, though – all according to His plan.

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17-12-2011, 08:26 PM
RE: Questions for the Christian believer
(17-12-2011 08:21 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  11. What evil did plants and animals do that died in the Great Flood? Why is there no separation between primary and secondary suffering?

When Satan brought sin to the earth it permeated its entirety. Sin corrupted all and its curse infected all creation (Romans 8:22). Because of this, nothing is “innocent” and everything is cursed to die. Since plants and animals do not have the knowledge of good and evil, they are finite but still cursed. Our flesh is finite as well as cursed, but since we have the knowledge of good and evil, our souls become infinite. Plants and animals were not chosen for this.

Wow.
How does one measure the evil? How does one even detect the evil?
And an omnipotent God allows evil to permeate the world. How loving.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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