Questions for the Christian believer
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20-12-2011, 09:38 PM
RE: Questions for the Christian believer
(20-12-2011 05:00 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  [i]Evidence for me being elect:

...The higher power led me to read and study the Bible. This was the first time that I’ve ever actually done it. It was at this time that I realized that the higher power I was talking to was the Christian God...

I want to say this with care, because I don't want to sound like I'm lecturing or belittling you... Francis Collins, head of the Human Genome Project, prolific scientist and Christian, said he converted to Christianity upon witnessing a frozen waterfall split into 3 streams. His evidence for God, which is actual evidence in the same way that we scientists and philosophers view evidence, is the same as your evidence - it's knowing God through personal experience. And that's fine, if you had an objective way to decipher the difference between an experience with God, Allah, Zeus, random hallucinations or your own subconscious mind. Even a very smart person can be fooled, but you have to realize that it's possible for your experiences to be mistaken.

When my father was a kid, some friends of his from school went to the city park and dumped sand around the edge of a large circle of grass, then lit that grass on fire. After the flames in this circle went out, they called the newspaper and claimed that they'd witnessed a UFO landing in the park. The paper reported it, and thousands of people starting harassing the papers stating that they'd also witnessed a UFO.

Now, it's highly unlikely that there were any UFOs or that anyone spotted one. So were all these people lying? Sure, some of them may have been, but I'm certain that a lot of them simply spent more time than they normally would have scrutinizing the night sky looking for signs of aliens. And they were likely to see normal, everyday flying objects like aircraft - things that they wouldn't have even noticed otherwise - and interpret it as the very thing they were looking for. It's called confirmation bias, and we're all victims to it unless we're aware of it and take steps to avoid it.

I'm not saying that you didn't experience God - it's possible - but your experience is also impossible to verify... not just for me, but there's no way even for you to know that you experienced God. After all, many people think they talk to Allah, and you don't believe their experiences. Just like me, you think that they're misconstruing their experiences to fit their beliefs. Have you ever considered that you may be doing that also?

My girlfriend is mad at me. Perhaps I shouldn't have tried cooking a stick in her non-stick pan.
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21-12-2011, 08:19 AM
RE: Questions for the Christian believer
@Starcrash
Yeah, at first I thought it was confirmation bias. I was well aware of it, and I kept taking steps towards rationality for what had happened. In the end, I couldn't reconcile my experiences and what I felt from anything else than something supernaturally. I'm not a person that makes hasty decisions... not at all.

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21-12-2011, 09:29 AM
RE: Questions for the Christian believer
(20-12-2011 10:38 AM)Starcrash Wrote:  
(20-12-2011 09:08 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  32. How reliable are the four gospels?

I believe in the infallibility of the Bible.

The easiest contradictions in the bible are seen in the four gospels. It has already pointed out by Seth on this site, but the resurrection story offers quite a variation between the four gospels.

Matthew: 1. It's at first light, 2. Visitors are Mary and Mary, 3. Earthquake as stone is rolled away in front of them, 4. Met by 1 man, 5. They go and tell everyone

Mark: 1. It's at first light, 2. Visitors are Mary and Mary and Salome, 3. Stone already rolled away, 4. Met by 1 angel, 5. They tell no one

Luke: 1. ?, 2. Visitors are Mary and Mary and Joanne and others, 3. Stone already rolled away, 4. Met by 2 men, 5. They told the "11" who told everyone else

John: 1. It's dark out, 2. Visited by Mary Magdelene alone, 3. Stone already rolled away, 4. Met by 2 angels AND Jesus, 5. She told Peter and another disciple, and they went straight home and told no one

It seems so clear to me that these are very different accounts. Even if you could put together one coherent narrative out of these 4 accounts, why would it be necessary to have 4 people tell the story just to figure out what happened? It seems like every disciple wanted to tell this important tale but none of them could remember it.

I'm pretty certain that if someone pointed out contradictions that questioned the infallibility of the Q'uran, you'd have no problem seeing them and agreeing with them. Your own bias will make you want to protect this idea that your own holy book is perfect.

But not all Christians believe this. You really can be a Christian and see the bible as metaphorical, a guide to living but not a literal account. I don't agree with that view either, but it certainly makes a lot more sense than your point of view, which I see as so obviously silly.

I just saw this. Sorry I missed it. I'll try and have an answer for you ASAP... same with answering the rest of the questions.

Y'all killin me Smile

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21-12-2011, 01:32 PM
RE: Questions for the Christian believer
36. Why did Jesus curse a fig tree for bearing fruit outside the harvesting season?

This was a lesson to the disciples about “fruit”. As a believer you should always bear fruit, if you do not, you are useless.

37. Why did Jesus behave violently at one occasion? Why didn’t he turn the other cheek? Does this agree with his earlier declarations?

Yes. “Turning the other cheek” refers to acts against humans. Jesus’ righteous anger stemmed from the blasphemy that was happening in the temple.

38. Why does your god use deceitful spirits and live among them (1 Chronicles 22:19; 2 Chronicles 18:21; 2 Thessalonians 2:11)?

Not sure why you listed 1 Chronicles 22:19 - 19 Now set your heart and your soul to seek the LORD your God; arise, therefore, and build the sanctuary of the LORD God, so that you may bring the ark of the covenant of the LORD and the holy vessels of God into the house that is to be built for the name of the LORD.”

I do not know or care to research the Arminian explanation for this; however, the Calvinist belief is obvious: God chooses who to damn and who to save. God hardens who He wants. This is just another example of why I believe election.


39. Why do venomous fangs, sharp claws, viruses, toxoplasma and all parasites and pathogenic bacteria exist?

Because of evolution. And, because death was part of God’s plan from the very beginning.

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21-12-2011, 02:00 PM
RE: Questions for the Christian believer
39. It's going well. You are speedy religious Gonzalez.
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21-12-2011, 08:15 PM
RE: Questions for the Christian believer
40. Why does Jesus announce to the spectators (Matthew 16:28) that many of them will see him return? Why does he not keep his promise?

28Verily I say to you, there are certain of those standing here who shall not taste of death till they may see the Son of Man coming in his reign.' YLT

This is talking about the transfiguration.


41. Why doesn’t the god of the Old Testament just create a new earth?

Confused on the question. A new earth is eventually made, but which event are you referencing?

42. Who were the mythical giants of Genesis 6 who were also known as Nephilim? What became of them?

Very good question! Okay, keep in mind that this is my belief; however, it is widely shared. The Nephs were the offspring of fallen angels and human women. They also survived the flood. It is believed that the fallen angels impregnated human women to try and corrupt the Messianic line. These Nephilim were monstrosities and abominations. I believe demons are disembodied spirits of the Nephilim. These spirits have no place in either heaven or hell, so they are cursed to wander the earth.

Demons cannot be the fallen angels because demons behave differently than angels. Angels have a body, and angels are more exalted than an earthly human. Angelic actions in the Bible show no desire to garb themselves in earthly flesh much less possess someone. Satan is shown to only influence but never to possess (which would be the best way to make a human do something). Demons, on the other hand, can take direct control of a human body – a possession. This is a trait unique to demons and completely foreign to angels.

Another thing to consider is this: Why are demons constantly looking for a body? All they want is to dwell in some type of body… it doesn’t even need to be human (Legion asked to be casts into the pigs). Why would an angel want or need a body? The Nephilim were damned from the beginning and their spirits don’t have a home until the Final Judgment when all the non-elect are cast into the Lake of Fire; therefore, their disembodied EVIL spirits continually roam the earth looking for a body.

In short, the Nephilim became demons when they died… now, how they completely died out, I don’t know… or do I know if they completely died out. We could still have Nephilim blood walking around on earth today.

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22-12-2011, 12:59 AM
RE: Questions for the Christian believer
(21-12-2011 08:15 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  40. Why does Jesus announce to the spectators (Matthew 16:28) that many of them will see him return? Why does he not keep his promise?

28Verily I say to you, there are certain of those standing here who shall not taste of death till they may see the Son of Man coming in his reign.' YLT

This is talking about the transfiguration.

Pastor Erxomai has let a lot of your answers slip by unchallenged, but he needs to see how you back this claim.

It was just a fucking apple man, we're sorry okay? Please stop the madness Laugh out load
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22-12-2011, 09:15 AM
RE: Questions for the Christian believer
Quote:42. Who were the mythical giants of Genesis 6 who were also known as Nephilim? What became of them?

[b]Very good question! Okay, keep in mind that this is my belief; however, it is widely shared. The Nephs were the offspring of fallen angels and human women. They also survived the flood. It is believed that the fallen angels impregnated human women to try and corrupt the Messianic line. These Nephilim were monstrosities and abominations. I believe demons are disembodied spirits of the Nephilim. These spirits have no place in either heaven or hell, so they are cursed to wander the earth.
... etc.

Just want to comment that your answers get wackier and wackier. The tortuous interpretations get funnier and funnier.

Thanks for the entertainment.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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22-12-2011, 09:25 AM (This post was last modified: 22-12-2011 09:25 AM by kingschosen.)
RE: Questions for the Christian believer
(22-12-2011 12:59 AM)Erxomai Wrote:  
(21-12-2011 08:15 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  40. Why does Jesus announce to the spectators (Matthew 16:28) that many of them will see him return? Why does he not keep his promise?

28Verily I say to you, there are certain of those standing here who shall not taste of death till they may see the Son of Man coming in his reign.' YLT

This is talking about the transfiguration.

Pastor Erxomai has let a lot of your answers slip by unchallenged, but he needs to see how you back this claim.

Hmm, this has always been my stock answer, and to be honest, I was tired and didn't feel like putting much thought/research into it.

As I'm looking at it, I'm starting to be swayed from the "transfiguration theory".

I'll get back with you in a bit on it.
(22-12-2011 09:15 AM)Chas Wrote:  
Quote:42. Who were the mythical giants of Genesis 6 who were also known as Nephilim? What became of them?

[b]Very good question! Okay, keep in mind that this is my belief; however, it is widely shared. The Nephs were the offspring of fallen angels and human women. They also survived the flood. It is believed that the fallen angels impregnated human women to try and corrupt the Messianic line. These Nephilim were monstrosities and abominations. I believe demons are disembodied spirits of the Nephilim. These spirits have no place in either heaven or hell, so they are cursed to wander the earth.
... etc.

Just want to comment that your answers get wackier and wackier. The tortuous interpretations get funnier and funnier.

Thanks for the entertainment.

Anytime, bud.

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22-12-2011, 01:14 PM
RE: Questions for the Christian believer
Ok, after doing some more research, I think I'm going to side with Spurgeon's theory about what "taste of death" means.

At the glorious appearing of Christ there are some who will taste death, but will they be the righteous? Surely, my dear friends, when Christ comes, the righteous will not die; they will be caught up with the Lord in the air. His coming will be the signal for the resurrection of all his saints.

But mark you, at the time of his coming, the men who have been without God, and without Christ, will begin for the first time to “taste of death.” They passed the first stage of dissolution when the soul quitted the body, but they have never known the “taste of death.” Till then, they will not have known its tremendous bitterness and its awful horror. They will never drink of the wormwood and the gall, so as really to “taste of death,” till the Lord shall come. This tasting of death here may he explained, and I believe it is to be explained, by a reference to the second death, which men will not taste of till the Lord comes.

And what a dreadful sentence that was, when the Savior said—perhaps singling out Judas as he spoke—“Verily I say unto you, there be some standing here, who shall never know what that dreadful word ‘death’ means, till the Lord shall come. You think that if you save your lives, you escape from death. Ah! you do not know what death means. The demise of the body is but a prelude to the perdition of the soul. The grave is but the porch of death; you will never understand the meaning of that terrible word till the Lord comes.”

This can have no reference to the saints, because in the eighth chapter of John, and the fifty first verse, you find this passage—

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death. Then said the Jews unto him, Now we know that thou hast a devil. Abraham is dead, and the prophets; and thou sayest, If a man keep my saying, he shall never taste of death.” (John 8:51-52)

No righteous man, therefore, can ever “taste of death.” He will fall into that deep oblivious sleep in which the body sees corruption; but that is another and a very different thing from the bitter cup referred to as tasting of death. When the Holy Ghost wanted an expression to set forth that which was the equivalent for the divine wrath, what expression was used?—“Christ, by the grace of God, tasted death for every man” (cf. Hebrews 2:9).

The expression “to taste of death,” means the reception of that true and essential death, which kills both the body and the soul in hell for ever. The Savior said then, as he might say, I fear, if he stood in this pulpit to-night—

“Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.” (Matthew 16:28)

If this be the meaning, and I hold that it is in keeping with the context, it explains the verse, sets forth the reason why Christ bespoke breathless attention with the word “verily,” answers both the grammar and the rhetoric, and is not by any argument that I have ever heard of to be moved—if this be so, what thrilling denunciations are contained in my text. O, may the Holy Spirit deeply affect our hearts, and cause our souls to thrill with its solemnity!

What thoughts it stirs up! Compared with the doom which will be inflicted upon the ungodly at the coming of Christ, the death of nature 'is nothing. We go farther: compared with the doom of the wicked at the coming of Christ, even the torments of souls in a separate state are scarcely anything. The startling question then comes up. Are there any sitting or standing here who will have to taste of death when the Lord comes?

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