Questions from a Protestant to a Catholic
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11-10-2012, 03:18 PM
Questions from a Protestant to a Catholic
Hi, Tarzan... I wanted to pick your brain a little.

I've never had much theological discussions with a Catholic, so I would like to get your personal opinion on things.

We'll start off easy.

1) Do Catholics really believe Protestants are heretical?
2) Do Catholics really believe Protestants are unsaved?
3) What are your personal views on Protestants?

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11-10-2012, 05:40 PM (This post was last modified: 11-10-2012 05:49 PM by Janus.)
RE: Questions from a Protestant to a Catholic
(11-10-2012 03:18 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  Hi, Tarzan... I wanted to pick your brain a little.

I've never had much theological discussions with a Catholic, so I would like to get your personal opinion on things.

We'll start off easy.

1) Do Catholics really believe Protestants are heretical?

Of course, it's dogma.

Quote:2) Do Catholics really believe Protestants are unsaved?

Of course, it's dogma.

Quote:3) What are your personal views on Protestants?

Just as pathetically deluded as all other monotheists, polytheists, and animists.
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11-10-2012, 06:50 PM
RE: Questions from a Protestant to a Catholic
Both are equally wrong so this is sorta pointless isn't it.

I don't talk gay, I don't walk gay, it's like people don't even know I'm gay unless I'm blowing them.
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11-10-2012, 06:57 PM
RE: Questions from a Protestant to a Catholic
One of my favourite answers to give when someone asks for something at work: "Why don't you pray about it and get your answer that way?" /troll Tongue

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11-10-2012, 07:17 PM
RE: Questions from a Protestant to a Catholic
(11-10-2012 06:57 PM)Near Wrote:  One of my favourite answers to give when someone asks for something at work: "Why don't you pray about it and get your answer that way?" /troll Tongue

Reminds me of the new Navy add on TV. It's showing some navy shit and some old guy is doing a voice-over of our national anthem. And it ends on the line "God defend New Zealand", so of course I gave the obvious comment of "if God was defending New Zealand we wouldn't be bothering with the navy then would we" which got some very distasteful looks from my Christian flatmates.

I don't talk gay, I don't walk gay, it's like people don't even know I'm gay unless I'm blowing them.
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12-10-2012, 09:30 AM
RE: Questions from a Protestant to a Catholic
(11-10-2012 03:18 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  Hi, Tarzan... I wanted to pick your brain a little.

I've never had much theological discussions with a Catholic, so I would like to get your personal opinion on things.

We'll start off easy.

1) Do Catholics really believe Protestants are heretical?
2) Do Catholics really believe Protestants are unsaved?
3) What are your personal views on Protestants?

Kingchosen,

I see Tarzan hasn't replied yet and, as a former Catholic, I can answer at least the first two for you.

1) I believe the most accurate answer is yes, but not completely. A lot of Protestant teaching coincides with Catholic teaching. (And not all Protestant religions are equal. Some deviate from Catholicism more than others.) On the details that agree, the answer would be no, but where they disagree, the answer would be yes.

2) No. Catholics believe that everyone must be baptized in order to be saved. However, there are 3 types of baptism that can lead to salvation. The first is the traditional baptism that Catholics receive. The second is a "baptism of desire" which applies to people who honestly do their best to follow God's wishes, but who follow a non-Catholic religion simply out of ignorance that Catholicism is the "one, true way". Protestants can be saved by this baptism. The third is a "baptism of fire" where a person dies during the cause of defending God. Catholics do believe, however, that only Catholics will be granted the privilege of the beatific vision.

3) This one would have to be answered by someone who is still Catholic if it is to have any meaning for you.

Silence is only golden when it's not synonymous with a failure to speak out against injustice.

"We must question the story logic of having an all-knowing all-powerful God, who creates faulty Humans, and then blames them for his own mistakes." --Gene Roddenberry
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12-10-2012, 09:54 AM
RE: Questions from a Protestant to a Catholic
Yes we do believe that you are heretical officially. In the Catechism of the catholic church as well as the Summa Theologica of St Thomas, it states that in order to have supernatural faith you must accept all articles of God's revelation. Although there is always a spectrum in just about everything in Catholicism. Not all revelation are necessary for salvation or at least not as necessary. Essentially there are two ways of knowing God's mysteries Through reason (known as the late dicta) and through God revealing the truths to us which we can only know through faith (known as the strcta dicta). There are also two forms of ignorance. Invincible ignorance which is that you could not have known or should not have known and culpable ignorance which is could have and should have known. So there are few reasons not to know the late dicta mysteries since all of us have reason and at least on TTA are reasonably intelligent. With the stricta dicta mysteries it is a bit more difficult since these are things that must be revealed to us. As such a protestant would not have the benefit of the churches archive of public revelation.

In summing up, if you know the truth and reject it you are going to hell, and most other religions have truth just not fullness of truth.

whether they are saved or not is a hard one to answer since we do not believe in the once saved always saved, so we never say one is saved. we can say that they lack what is required for salvation but they can always be saved. Also you can be a catholic in spirit but not in name.

My opinion varies between various denominations. I consider Orthodox Catholics and Anglicans to be almost Catholics since much of their doctrine is essentially the same and most of the reason for their break was political. Otherwise I dislike almost all the YEC and most evangelicals. I actually prefer atheists to almost all other protestants.

By the way Calvinists are not very high on the Catholic acceptance list

I'm homophobic in the same way that I'm arachnophobic. I'm not scared of gay people but I'm going to scream if I find one in my bath.

Up to the heretic, smack, smack, smack!
Down to the jail went Good St. Nick!

When people say WWJD just remember that flipping tables and whipping people is still a valid option.
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12-10-2012, 09:58 AM
RE: Questions from a Protestant to a Catholic
(12-10-2012 09:30 AM)Impulse Wrote:  
(11-10-2012 03:18 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  Hi, Tarzan... I wanted to pick your brain a little.

I've never had much theological discussions with a Catholic, so I would like to get your personal opinion on things.

We'll start off easy.

1) Do Catholics really believe Protestants are heretical?
2) Do Catholics really believe Protestants are unsaved?
3) What are your personal views on Protestants?

Kingchosen,

I see Tarzan hasn't replied yet and, as a former Catholic, I can answer at least the first two for you.

1) I believe the most accurate answer is yes, but not completely. A lot of Protestant teaching coincides with Catholic teaching. (And not all Protestant religions are equal. Some deviate from Catholicism more than others.) On the details that agree, the answer would be no, but where they disagree, the answer would be yes.

2) No. Catholics believe that everyone must be baptized in order to be saved. However, there are 3 types of baptism that can lead to salvation. The first is the traditional baptism that Catholics receive. The second is a "baptism of desire" which applies to people who honestly do their best to follow God's wishes, but who follow a non-Catholic religion simply out of ignorance that Catholicism is the "one, true way". Protestants can be saved by this baptism. The third is a "baptism of fire" where a person dies during the cause of defending God. Catholics do believe, however, that only Catholics will be granted the privilege of the beatific vision.

3) This one would have to be answered by someone who is still Catholic if it is to have any meaning for you.

Thank you, Impulse.

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12-10-2012, 10:00 AM
RE: Questions from a Protestant to a Catholic
(12-10-2012 09:54 AM)TarzanSmith Wrote:  Yes we do believe that you are heretical officially. In the Catechism of the catholic church as well as the Summa Theologica of St Thomas, it states that in order to have supernatural faith you must accept all articles of God's revelation. Although there is always a spectrum in just about everything in Catholicism. Not all revelation are necessary for salvation or at least not as necessary. Essentially there are two ways of knowing God's mysteries Through reason (known as the late dicta) and through God revealing the truths to us which we can only know through faith (known as the strcta dicta). There are also two forms of ignorance. Invincible ignorance which is that you could not have known or should not have known and culpable ignorance which is could have and should have known. So there are few reasons not to know the late dicta mysteries since all of us have reason and at least on TTA are reasonably intelligent. With the stricta dicta mysteries it is a bit more difficult since these are things that must be revealed to us. As such a protestant would not have the benefit of the churches archive of public revelation.

In summing up, if you know the truth and reject it you are going to hell, and most other religions have truth just not fullness of truth.

whether they are saved or not is a hard one to answer since we do not believe in the once saved always saved, so we never say one is saved. we can say that they lack what is required for salvation but they can always be saved. Also you can be a catholic in spirit but not in name.

My opinion varies between various denominations. I consider Orthodox Catholics and Anglicans to be almost Catholics since much of their doctrine is essentially the same and most of the reason for their break was political. Otherwise I dislike almost all the YEC and most evangelicals. I actually prefer atheists to almost all other protestants.

By the way Calvinists are not very high on the Catholic acceptance list

Thanks, Tarzan.

Appreciate the info.

Next up:

1) Why are Calvinist not very high up on the Catholic acceptance list?
2) Are Catholics Bible literalists?
3) What is the general Catholic eschatological point of view?

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12-10-2012, 10:35 AM
RE: Questions from a Protestant to a Catholic
1) Namely because of your view on the elect and your rejection of free will.
Just as a point of clarification do Calvanists believe in free choice but not free will or just we have neither. Catholics actually do not believe in in free will but we believe in free choice. Its really just being anal over what words actually mean.

Also you believe in the concept of the elect, which is also to a certain extant heretical since we believe everyone has a chance at salvation.

2) According to the Catechism, we believe the bible to be divinely inspired. This means that everything in the bible is meant to be in the bible but it does not mean it is to be taken literally. There are two senses of scripture, the literal sense and the spiritual sense. in the spiritual sense in can be divided into the Allegorical sense (what pertains to Jesus) the moral sense (what pertains to living a moral life) and the anagogical sense (what pertains to the coming of the kingdom of heaven).
I' am actually a heretic on this point since I consider the Bible to be a historical book that has theological uses and I believe that God does not protect the Bible. It does not make a lot of difference since I consider the Bible two be the best source of truth and we should therefore follow it anyway.

3) in terms of the end times, I don't know a whole lot about the official position of the Catholic church but I do know that we believe that hell exists and that you will stay in hell for eternity. What hell is is a bit more up to debate. My teacher said that there is fire and the like but the main thing is that you will never experience the fullness of God and it is the separation that is the worst of it. In terms of heaven I am a believer that we will be eternally happy just from experiencing the fullness of God's love and that nothing else at that point will matter.

I'm homophobic in the same way that I'm arachnophobic. I'm not scared of gay people but I'm going to scream if I find one in my bath.

Up to the heretic, smack, smack, smack!
Down to the jail went Good St. Nick!

When people say WWJD just remember that flipping tables and whipping people is still a valid option.
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