Questions to atheists
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22-11-2015, 02:53 PM (This post was last modified: 22-11-2015 02:58 PM by true scotsman.)
RE: Questions to atheists
Wow, that was extraordinarily hard to read. I take it that the gist of your post is that we need a god in order to have morals. If that is not the gist then you'll have to explain in a clearer and more concise manner.

There is no god and there are morals. So your contention is wrong. Morals are a set of principles to guide one's actions and choices. They are conceptual in nature. Luckily, we are endowed by nature with a conceptual faculty (It is our fundamental attribute). We perceive reality and then we identify and integrate what we perceive into concepts by means of abstraction. In a very similar manner we observe reality and then through, again, a process of abstraction, we induce general principles. Some of these principles pertain to proper action in how we conduct ourselves. If our principles so formed correspond to reality, they are true, if not, not. This is where morality comes from. No gods needed. If we choose wisely and objectively, then we have a much better chance of having a good and flourishing life. If not, not.

Here's an example of how it works. We observe that closely related people have offspring that are plagued with more health problems than offspring of people who are not closely related. Then we induce the principle that it is not a good idea to mate with our sisters or brothers or our fathers or mothers (yuck). So, if we care about our offspring, this becomes one of the principles with which we guide our actions, because unlike other animals, we have a choice about how we conduct ourselves ( you know, that distinction you'd like to exclude). This is one reason we need a code of moral values, because we have a volitional consciousness unlike the other animals. I know you'd like to ignore this fact, but it is true none the less.

Now I readily admit that many don't go through this procedure. Many are told that something is moral because an invisible magic being says so, and they accept it and never consider the principle behind it (there isn't one in the case of religious morality). Thus they are left without any guidance on a great deal of the actions that determine the course of their lives. They treat morals as a duty imposed by the invisible magic being, on threat of punsishment, and don't think any further on it. This is a huge problem. Maybe one day in the future we will start teaching our kids to reason for themselves and how to do it well, instead of scaring them in Sunday school. Let's have principled action not mindless obedience.

Do not lose your knowledge that man's proper estate is an upright posture, an intransigent mind and a step that travels unlimited roads. - Ayn Rand.

Don't sacrifice for me, live for yourself! - Me

The only alternative to Objectivism is some form of Subjectivism. - Dawson Bethrick
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22-11-2015, 02:56 PM (This post was last modified: 22-11-2015 02:59 PM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Questions to atheists
(22-11-2015 02:04 PM)davidkingrichie Wrote:  
(22-11-2015 02:00 PM)DerFish Wrote:  Is that next? I thunk ya had to wait until you died, not that it was next!
Salvation is not for the dead. Only the living can be saved. (after Christ resurrection)

That's not what St. Paul said. What ? You never read the Bible ?

By the number of guests, it appears we have a Biola (or some idiotic Bible College) Freshman Apologetics class project on our hands. Weeping

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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22-11-2015, 03:01 PM
RE: Questions to atheists
(22-11-2015 07:11 AM)davidkingrichie Wrote:  
(22-11-2015 06:52 AM)Aoi Magi Wrote:  Nice intro. That really gives people a deeper understanding of your thought process. I hope you stick around to discuss these fine points further, like how incest and rape neither exist nor is supported by God in the bible. Smile

Thank you everyone. It's clear that God doesn't support rape unless you can point to me in the bible where it depict God saying "rape that woman" or "sleep with your siblings and relation". Man's fall from God's presence produced a temporary solution to man's inadequacy to multiply. God totally stopped this with his laws,because things were getting out of hand. As depicted in the story of lot.

Prove it.

Do not lose your knowledge that man's proper estate is an upright posture, an intransigent mind and a step that travels unlimited roads. - Ayn Rand.

Don't sacrifice for me, live for yourself! - Me

The only alternative to Objectivism is some form of Subjectivism. - Dawson Bethrick
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22-11-2015, 03:02 PM
RE: Questions to atheists
(22-11-2015 07:32 AM)davidkingrichie Wrote:  
(22-11-2015 07:20 AM)onlinebiker Wrote:  According to the story --your god knocked up Mary without her consent... That's rape..,.... A real turd if you ask me.... Bad enough he's gotta take her without consent, but the wanker doesn't even have the decency to wear a rubber......
Lol. I see this as some sort of a joke. Before Mary was "knocked up",her sister -john the baptist mother prophesied about her miracle baby. Thus,calling her favoured one. Before everything,an angel of the lord visited her - she consented. That same angel visited Joseph afterwards. The process was not physical sex involving a sperm,it should be more of an asexual kind. What God did was to send the spirit of his Son into the womb.

Prove it.

Do not lose your knowledge that man's proper estate is an upright posture, an intransigent mind and a step that travels unlimited roads. - Ayn Rand.

Don't sacrifice for me, live for yourself! - Me

The only alternative to Objectivism is some form of Subjectivism. - Dawson Bethrick
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22-11-2015, 03:07 PM
RE: Questions to atheists
(22-11-2015 10:04 AM)davidkingrichie Wrote:  
(22-11-2015 09:58 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Welcome.
We study the bible here. Really we do.
We LOVE the Bible.

Ya see, morality is found there. Laughat Facepalm Weeping

Deuteronomy 21:18–21 :
"If any man has a stubborn and rebellious son who will not obey his father or his mother, and when they chastise him, he will not even listen to them, then his father and mother shall seize him, and bring him out to the elders of his city at the gateway of his home town. And they shall say to the elders of his city, “This son of ours is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey us, he is a glutton and a drunkard.” Then all the men of his city shall stone him to death; so you shall remove the evil from your midst, and all Israel shall hear of it and fear".

What I don't get is this. If atheists believe that there is no God and life ends in death,then why waste you time debating about this? Why have a forum about this? Why don't you experience all the fun life has to offer? Oh,wait! Hmmmmm....

Some atheists might find it fun to debate and still have time to have fun in other ways as well and some of us care about ideas and whether they are true or not. Some of us enjoy thinking.

Do not lose your knowledge that man's proper estate is an upright posture, an intransigent mind and a step that travels unlimited roads. - Ayn Rand.

Don't sacrifice for me, live for yourself! - Me

The only alternative to Objectivism is some form of Subjectivism. - Dawson Bethrick
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22-11-2015, 03:10 PM
RE: Questions to atheists
"Spirits" don't provide the chromosomes needed to create a fetus. A woman's egg (oocyte) only has 1/2 the number needed ... no "spiritual" anything has *human chromosomes* ... so Jebus remains unexplained. So, in addition to being completely ignorant of scripture, religion, and cultural history, Mr. 3names knows no science. I take back what I said. It's maybe a grade-school class project.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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22-11-2015, 03:13 PM
RE: Questions to atheists
(22-11-2015 10:01 AM)davidkingrichie Wrote:  
(22-11-2015 09:56 AM)Matt Finney Wrote:  My response is in red.

If you have experience an animal that killed another animal without the said animal being hungry or being threatened,gladly share with the forum

My cat kills moles, voles, mice, and birds. She is not hungry and rarely eats them.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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22-11-2015, 03:16 PM
RE: Questions to atheists
(22-11-2015 10:09 AM)davidkingrichie Wrote:  
(22-11-2015 10:05 AM)undergroundp Wrote:  Because

1. Religion is doing more harm than good and someone needs to speak about it.

2. People who abandon religion need support and deserve a place where they feel accepted.

And why spending time in a forum means we don't experience all the fun life has to offer?

True. But the whole thing seems quite foolish to me. We all know how short life is,then you see some group of people debating about santa's existence and zombies. Seems ridiculous. From your perspective,a God is no different from a unicorn or a leprechaun.

If there were large groups of people who believed that Santa existed or Zombies and they guided their actions based on supposed commandments from Santa or zombies, and these people had a say in how the country is run, then I would debate them as well. And by the way, God is no different from these other things because like them it is imaginary. Irrationality is the root of all evil and evil is not overcome by ignoring it.

Do not lose your knowledge that man's proper estate is an upright posture, an intransigent mind and a step that travels unlimited roads. - Ayn Rand.

Don't sacrifice for me, live for yourself! - Me

The only alternative to Objectivism is some form of Subjectivism. - Dawson Bethrick
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22-11-2015, 03:16 PM
RE: Questions to atheists
I think it is obvious our dear friend stumbled into the wrong atheist forum. He thought he was going to come riding in here exposing the truth of the almighty gawd to the heretics and we would be amazed at his message and repent upon the spot.

He must not have seen the THINKING part of the forum name...he will learn the folly of his ways soon enough though.

"Belief is so often the death of reason" - Qyburn, Game of Thrones

"The Christian community continues to exist because the conclusions of the critical study of the Bible are largely withheld from them." -Hans Conzelmann (1915-1989)
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22-11-2015, 03:17 PM
RE: Questions to atheists
(22-11-2015 10:39 AM)davidkingrichie Wrote:  
(22-11-2015 10:36 AM)unfogged Wrote:  I don't often see claims that I must love evil because I don't tend unicorns. I don't hear about people losing their families and friends because they did not believe that a leprechaun lives in the garden. I speak out against religious belief because of the incredible negative effect it has. It is worth taking time from enjoying life because it so often interferes with that enjoyment.

Beautiful! God is not a God of religion. Man created religion.

Man also created gods. All of them. Drinking Beverage

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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