RIP Margaret Thatcher
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12-04-2013, 10:18 AM
RE: RIP Margaret Thatcher
(12-04-2013 12:50 AM)JAH Wrote:  bbeljefe, I must apologize for using intemperate words. Both women I called ignorant were not so, because they think differently than me does not make them so. I do find both more than offensive in thought but that is obviously different than ignorance. I will say I did not use the word idiot.

Your opinion that in the US the state controls the means of production I find a bit off. I myself believe that the means of production (more properly the financial sector) controls the state. Is it possible that both opinions are correct but imply a different starting point.

I might also suggest that certain controls of commerce are valid. Should the public be exposed to beef from cattle who have mad cow disease, or should workers (as I said above) be exposed to unsafe conditions. The state may be a flawed idea but unregulated commerce is also currently a flawed idea.

To say idiot is to describe the person who is ignorant. Thus, if I'm an ignorant shit, I'm an idiot. But in truth, we are all idiots to one degree or another, so who cares? Tongue

You make a good point in that the financial industry controls commerce through the vehicle that is the state. But, it isn't Phizer who will arrest you if you possess a Viagra without a state sanctioned permission slip. Likewise, Phizer must pay the state for permission to make and sell Viagra. It may be that Phizer wrote the legislation which requires the licensure but they do not enforce it and thus, they do not control it.

The state doesn't protect consumers from tainted beef any more than I protect my wife from being raped when she's not with me. Likewise with worker safety. When I'm with my wife, a rapist can't bribe me into overlooking his crime and if she's raped, she doesn't have to plead her case to me in order that I defend her. We can't say the same for the state, and frankly, the potential fines levied for the state are often calculated as a cost of doing business... if the business is caught and made to pay them. So that risk is the same as the risk of replacing a an HVAC system.

In the end, the possibility of losing insurance coverage is a greater risk than that of paying a fine.

The beginning of wisdom is to call things by their right names. - Chinese Proverb
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12-04-2013, 11:09 AM
RE: RIP Margaret Thatcher
(12-04-2013 10:18 AM)bbeljefe Wrote:  You make a good point in that the financial industry controls commerce through the vehicle that is the state. But, it isn't Phizer who will arrest you if you possess a Viagra without a state sanctioned permission slip. Likewise, Phizer must pay the state for permission to make and sell Viagra. It may be that Phizer wrote the legislation which requires the licensure but they do not enforce it and thus, they do not control it.

The state doesn't protect consumers from tainted beef any more than I protect my wife from being raped when she's not with me. Likewise with worker safety. When I'm with my wife, a rapist can't bribe me into overlooking his crime and if she's raped, she doesn't have to plead her case to me in order that I defend her. We can't say the same for the state, and frankly, the potential fines levied for the state are often calculated as a cost of doing business... if the business is caught and made to pay them. So that risk is the same as the risk of replacing a an HVAC system.

In the end, the possibility of losing insurance coverage is a greater risk than that of paying a fine.

Sad as hell but a fairly well laid out observation of the current state of affairs. Undecided
Although, I would emphasize the unregulated "financial industry controls commerce through the vehicle that is the state". The state or government views whatever "protection" they may offer to be regulation. And what have they done? They have given the protection of the hen house over to the fox. Stupid cunts. Although.... Consider I'm pretty certain someone wrote somewhere... We The People... once upon a time... in a galaxy far, far away...

A new type of thinking is essential if mankind is to survive and move to higher levels. ~ Albert Einstein
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12-04-2013, 11:18 AM
RE: RIP Margaret Thatcher
(12-04-2013 11:09 AM)kim Wrote:  Sad as hell but a fairly well laid out observation of the current state of affairs. Undecided
Although, I would emphasize the unregulated "financial industry controls commerce through the vehicle that is the state". The state or government views whatever "protection" they may offer to be regulation. And what have they done? They have given the protection of the hen house over to the fox. Stupid cunts. Although.... Consider I'm pretty certain someone wrote somewhere... We The People... once upon a time... in a galaxy far, far away...

The financial industry is not and has not been unregulated in over a century. It's true that some of the regulations are tailored to favor the uber rich but that is none the less regulation. It not only benefits the uber rich unfairly, it also presents significant hurdles for any would be competitors in the industry.

One could argue that the financial industry is unfairly or inconsistently regulated but to argue that it is unregulated is completely invalid.

The beginning of wisdom is to call things by their right names. - Chinese Proverb
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12-04-2013, 11:29 AM
RE: RIP Margaret Thatcher
(12-04-2013 11:18 AM)bbeljefe Wrote:  
(12-04-2013 11:09 AM)kim Wrote:  Sad as hell but a fairly well laid out observation of the current state of affairs. Undecided
Although, I would emphasize the unregulated "financial industry controls commerce through the vehicle that is the state". The state or government views whatever "protection" they may offer to be regulation. And what have they done? They have given the protection of the hen house over to the fox. Stupid cunts. Although.... Consider I'm pretty certain someone wrote somewhere... We The People... once upon a time... in a galaxy far, far away...

The financial industry is not and has not been unregulated in over a century. It's true that some of the regulations are tailored to favor the uber rich but that is none the less regulation. It not only benefits the uber rich unfairly, it also presents significant hurdles for any would be competitors in the industry.

One could argue that the financial industry is unfairly or inconsistently regulated but to argue that it is unregulated is completely invalid.

That is probably the truest and most profound thing I have ever seen you state Jefe.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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12-04-2013, 11:43 AM
RE: RIP Margaret Thatcher
(12-04-2013 11:29 AM)Revenant77x Wrote:  
(12-04-2013 11:18 AM)bbeljefe Wrote:  The financial industry is not and has not been unregulated in over a century. It's true that some of the regulations are tailored to favor the uber rich but that is none the less regulation. It not only benefits the uber rich unfairly, it also presents significant hurdles for any would be competitors in the industry.

One could argue that the financial industry is unfairly or inconsistently regulated but to argue that it is unregulated is completely invalid.

That is probably the truest and most profound thing I have ever seen you state Jefe.


Even the blind sow finds an acorn once in a while. Tongue

The beginning of wisdom is to call things by their right names. - Chinese Proverb
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12-04-2013, 03:02 PM
RIP Margaret Thatcher
But, Pfizer might have you arrested for misspelling their name.
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12-04-2013, 07:23 PM
RE: RIP Margaret Thatcher
(12-04-2013 03:02 PM)Cardinal Smurf Wrote:  But, Pfizer might have you arrested for misspelling their name.

Pfuckem!

The beginning of wisdom is to call things by their right names. - Chinese Proverb
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13-04-2013, 02:30 AM
RE: RIP Margaret Thatcher
(12-04-2013 11:18 AM)bbeljefe Wrote:  
(12-04-2013 11:09 AM)kim Wrote:  Sad as hell but a fairly well laid out observation of the current state of affairs. Undecided
Although, I would emphasize the unregulated "financial industry controls commerce through the vehicle that is the state". The state or government views whatever "protection" they may offer to be regulation. And what have they done? They have given the protection of the hen house over to the fox. Stupid cunts. Although.... Consider I'm pretty certain someone wrote somewhere... We The People... once upon a time... in a galaxy far, far away...

The financial industry is not and has not been unregulated in over a century. It's true that some of the regulations are tailored to favor the uber rich but that is none the less regulation. It not only benefits the uber rich unfairly, it also presents significant hurdles for any would be competitors in the industry.

One could argue that the financial industry is unfairly or inconsistently regulated but to argue that it is unregulated is completely invalid.

Not unregluated?
No, that's right. In the early 20th century there was a pretty good system. Then a lot of deregulation happened which led to the Great Depression. Then there were some holes patched, but those over time ripped open too, leading to smaller recessions like in the 1970's and 1980's, met by Rules-b-gone Ronald Reagan. Fixed by Clinton, screwed by Bush, fixed by Obama, and now even under Obama it's not going so well anymore.

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With the uncanny ability to see all sides in every argument.
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13-04-2013, 08:44 PM
RE: RIP Margaret Thatcher
(13-04-2013 02:30 AM)Caveman Wrote:  
(12-04-2013 11:18 AM)bbeljefe Wrote:  The financial industry is not and has not been unregulated in over a century. It's true that some of the regulations are tailored to favor the uber rich but that is none the less regulation. It not only benefits the uber rich unfairly, it also presents significant hurdles for any would be competitors in the industry.

One could argue that the financial industry is unfairly or inconsistently regulated but to argue that it is unregulated is completely invalid.

Not unregluated?
No, that's right. In the early 20th century there was a pretty good system. Then a lot of deregulation happened which led to the Great Depression. Then there were some holes patched, but those over time ripped open too, leading to smaller recessions like in the 1970's and 1980's, met by Rules-b-gone Ronald Reagan. Fixed by Clinton, screwed by Bush, fixed by Obama, and now even under Obama it's not going so well anymore.

Of which regulations are you speaking with regard to the Great Depression? How were they altered and what was the result?

The beginning of wisdom is to call things by their right names. - Chinese Proverb
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13-04-2013, 09:14 PM
RE: RIP Margaret Thatcher
(11-04-2013 03:11 AM)earmuffs Wrote:  
(10-04-2013 08:48 PM)FSM_scot Wrote:  Ding-dong! the witch is dead by Judy Garland is currently number 1 on the uk iTunes chart Laughat

That sir, is fucking hilarious.
+1 point to the UK for having a sense of humor.

Long live the Iron Lady. May she rust in peace. Tongue

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