Racism in the US - how bad is it?
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27-09-2017, 01:30 AM
RE: Racism in the US - how bad is it?
(27-09-2017 12:20 AM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  
(27-09-2017 12:07 AM)morondog Wrote:  So you think it's acceptable that a woman has to really think before calling cops, because her husband is black. That she is at a point where she's not sure if it's a good idea because the fucking COPS might kill him and that's a credible threat. Oh no, that's just safety.

Pathetic. Not that I expect anything else from a fucking racist-apologist dirty cop like you.

Still not racism.

The black community has major issues with cops. No respect for police. The majority of them will fight during arrest. I don't mean just a few. I'm talking almost every time I made an arrest on a black suspect, they throw punches, swing elbows, kick etc. Most white suspects will do exactly as they're told. Even if they're not guilty. They don't protest. Or argue uncontrollably. I'd say resisting arrest was added to about 2% of my white suspect cases (usually drunks) but close to 80% of my black suspects resisted arrest.

As I said, this isn't racism. It's learned behavior. After repeated violent encounters with black suspects, broken noses, cuts, scratches, etc. cops just stop taking chances. We used to laugh at rookies that got beat up repeatedly because they were taught to treat everyone the same. After about 6 months they learned.

So it's not racism provided it's taught to you... And the responsibility for doing a good job is on the person being arrested, not the cop.

And you've still failed. What are you going to say to the woman who's afraid, legitimately afraid to call the cops because of what they might do to her husband? "Sorry, that's just how it is"? Is this a right thing, that an American citizen can be unable to claim the benefits of living in American society because of the colour of his skin? "Sorry we the cops are too shit-scared to challenge the status quo".

You do a real good job of protecting and serving, dirty cop.

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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27-09-2017, 01:45 AM
RE: Racism in the US - how bad is it?
Racism breeds in a society where its civic leaders overtly promote it, fail to condemn it or make statements that can be interpreted as tacit acceptance of racist ideology.

Trump appears to be doing all three.

And therein lies your problem.

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27-09-2017, 02:04 AM
RE: Racism in the US - how bad is it?
(27-09-2017 12:20 AM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  ...
close to 80% of my black suspects resisted arrest ... It's learned behavior.
...
rookies that ... were taught to treat everyone the same. After about 6 months they learned.

Help me out here. Are you applying Skinnerian Conditioning Theory to the first stereotype or the second or both?

Huh

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27-09-2017, 03:40 AM
RE: Racism in the US - how bad is it?
(26-09-2017 11:57 PM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  
(26-09-2017 07:32 PM)Dom Wrote:  Something I saw on tv a while ago made me really think about this hard.

There was a white lady explaining how she would never call the police to her house for any reason because she was worried that they would shoot her black husband.

And I am thinking, damn, yeah, if I had a black husband in the house I would surely think twice before calling the police about a burglary. I'd have to make sure they knew my husband was black and unarmed...

And that is bad. Really very, very bad.

Is that racism?

Or cops being conditioned to be overly cautious around black men because black men are more likely to kill a police officer?

You guys can look into the numbers if you want. But I recall from my last training seminar before I retired that black men accounted for about 40% or more of police officer deaths despite being only 6% of the population (according to the FBI).

And real experience taught me that my black suspects were a million times more likely to fight back while being put into hand cuffs. This is why most cops will order a black suspect to the ground at gun point or taser, and might not do the same with a white suspect.

That's not racism. That's just safety.

Arming police with military grade weapons is surely one of the crowning achievements of the many utter fucking quasi-nazi cretins infesting the political establishments of America's states and cities. In an age when sub-lethal technology exists both for protecting police officers and for subduing, where necessary, anyone they need to arrest, militarization of the nation's police forces will in time come to be regarded as akin to a war crime. The job description refers to these people as 'peace officers'. The clearly illiterate assholes in charge of many, many police forces are ultimately responsible for the alienation and terrorization of certain sections of American society by fuckwit police tactics.
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27-09-2017, 04:06 AM
RE: Racism in the US - how bad is it?
(26-09-2017 11:45 PM)JAH Wrote:  One of the defining moments of my life was realizing that I had great benefits because I was a white male. Of course other things played into it but that was a biggy. Most of my friends and family are white. When I bring up the subject of white privilege I get a heavy dose of scorn. Even among my friends who are mostly very liberal.

Yes racism in various forms is very bad in the USA. Even the most liberal of white people do not recognize how it affects them and the culture.

On this forum I have seen someone pretend that there is something like a level playing field in this country. There is not, particularly for those whose ancestors were brought over in the stinking and deadly holds of slave ships.

JAH,

That's a good post.

D.
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27-09-2017, 05:57 AM (This post was last modified: 27-09-2017 06:50 AM by BikerDude.)
RE: Racism in the US - how bad is it?
It's difficult to really say.
It depends on where you are.
It depends on the individual black or Hispanic or other race person.
Background, income etc.
But I would point out that racism didn't start or end in the US.
Today the most racist countries in the world would probably be in Asia.
But I would say that as long as there are races there will be racism.
The age old job interview question comes to mind.
Even if the person conducting the interview isn't overtly racist there is a racist element in the fact that most people are or assume that they have more in common with members of their own race. Given equally qualified candidates people are more likely to pick the one from their own race, religion, economic background.
Sadly it's human nature. And that sets up a whole dynamic that effects income, opportunity etc.
In this way it really is more about minorities coming out on the short end of the stick than about a particular race.
In any given context it becomes about race but the oppressed race is pretty much always the minority.
You could say that all people are the same, and that's the problem.
They are in the end all selfish pricks who bend reality to suit their particular purposes and whatever group has the most members picks the reality.
This is why racism is common and stubborn in "economically challenged" individuals.
They insist on the "reality" of the "majority" because it's about the only thing they have working for them.
Lovely.
True racism is probably very much ingrained in us as well.
As a form of xenophobia. It's tribal.
We are pack animals. And millions of years of evolution has ingrained certain behaviors not all of which are particularly wholesome.
I do find that the "racist mind" (if there is such a thing) processes reality differently.
It's a way of deriving overarching beliefs based on specific vaguely related info. And it's not always about race.
Just watch Bill O'Reilly if you want endless examples. (Well he's not on any more)
I remember his week long thing about something as idiotic as how expensive the muffins were at some Government meeting.
Like $12 a piece or something.
The point is that this small ridiculous piece of information was supposed to bootstrap a condemnation of the "big Government" and Obama.
It's a way of looking at the world that uses very shoddy methodology to reach conclusions. Using specific small incidents to reach overarching conclusions.
Talk to any of the many people who will tell you that the Muslims are trying to bring Sharia law to the US and you will see it in clear context.
They will tell you about "something they heard" or saw on TV about some incident that is at best vaguely related.
If you ask them if they know any Muslims typically they don't or they will tell you about the guy at the market behind the counter who as often as not is not actually Muslim and who just seems untrustworthy to them.
It's the same old thing.
But in the end racism feeds on ignorance and ignorance is stubborn when people are taught a certain way of deriving reality.
Which by the way I personally find very similar to the "Religious Mind"
Is it a coincidence that racism seems most stubborn in the bible belt?

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27-09-2017, 06:08 AM
RE: Racism in the US - how bad is it?
Racism has been bad in American for a very, very long time. What it has been in recent years is a bit more covert. Mindsets haven't really changed much but it seems that the need to hide under a hood is not only gone but not necessary at all.

The statements made by people who should know better have brought the 'secret' out into the open and are now flaunting it.

If POTUS can be publicly racist then why can't the general public? Now the racists are loud and proud. This isn't going to end well, at all.

And I don't speak only of BillyJoeBob but also of supposedly educated members of the business and political worlds who had sense enough to keep their traps shut until they were given the all clear.

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27-09-2017, 06:11 AM
RE: Racism in the US - how bad is it?
(26-09-2017 07:32 PM)Dom Wrote:  Something I saw on tv a while ago made me really think about this hard.

There was a white lady explaining how she would never call the police to her house for any reason because she was worried that they would shoot her black husband.

And I am thinking, damn, yeah, if I had a black husband in the house I would surely think twice before calling the police about a burglary. I'd have to make sure they knew my husband was black and unarmed...

And that is bad. Really very, very bad.

Best information I've seen is that police shoot 3.3 people per day in the US.
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27-09-2017, 06:15 AM
RE: Racism in the US - how bad is it?
(26-09-2017 11:57 PM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  
(26-09-2017 07:32 PM)Dom Wrote:  Something I saw on tv a while ago made me really think about this hard.

There was a white lady explaining how she would never call the police to her house for any reason because she was worried that they would shoot her black husband.

And I am thinking, damn, yeah, if I had a black husband in the house I would surely think twice before calling the police about a burglary. I'd have to make sure they knew my husband was black and unarmed...

And that is bad. Really very, very bad.

Is that racism?

Or cops being conditioned to be overly cautious around black men because black men are more likely to kill a police officer?

You guys can look into the numbers if you want. But I recall from my last training seminar before I retired that black men accounted for about 40% or more of police officer deaths despite being only 6% of the population (according to the FBI).

And real experience taught me that my black suspects were a million times more likely to fight back while being put into hand cuffs. This is why most cops will order a black suspect to the ground at gun point or taser, and might not do the same with a white suspect.

That's not racism. That's just safety.
And you don't consider how the black person vs many others feel about an interaction with the cop and why they feel resistence.

Because the decision of cops to more likely throw down a black person on the ground at gunpoint is known to them. That's why so many will resist or hesitate to trust police.

Your fear creates their fear and it cycles on to leading to harmful choices.

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27-09-2017, 06:30 AM (This post was last modified: 27-09-2017 06:57 AM by BikerDude.)
RE: Racism in the US - how bad is it?
(27-09-2017 06:08 AM)Anjele Wrote:  Racism has been bad in American for a very, very long time. What it has been in recent years is a bit more covert. Mindsets haven't really changed much but it seems that the need to hide under a hood is not only gone but not necessary at all.

The statements made by people who should know better have brought the 'secret' out into the open and are now flaunting it.

If POTUS can be publicly racist then why can't the general public? Now the racists are loud and proud. This isn't going to end well, at all.

And I don't speak only of BillyJoeBob but also of supposedly educated members of the business and political worlds who had sense enough to keep their traps shut until they were given the all clear.

Well you see this is the point.
Yes racism has been bad in America for a very long time.
But in reality I'd have to say that it is not as bad as it was not all that long ago.
If I just use what I hear on TV news shows then it seems that we are having a big upswing. But if I temper that with my own actual experiences I have to take it with a grain of salt. Our next door neighbor moved out and a black family moved in.
They have fit right in and they seem to be doing fine. They pick up their kids at the same school as we do and they get along with all the other parents perfectly fine.
Our kids play together. It's all no big deal.
If I say "yeah but this isn't Mississippi" then the best I can say is "I don't know".
But I don't see a lot of news about lynchings any more.
Even the fringe elements like the KKK and white supremacists are largely marginalized. All a person has to do is look at the history of the KKK to see that they did make up a genuine political force in the US in the 20's and 30's.
They are a shadow of what they were and there is simply no evidence that they will ever return to that level of membership or influence.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/retr...23c210f6b4


Yes our idiot in chief is a big fucking problem but how is this surprising?
But notice that he has around a 30% approval rating.
What I find most troubling is how organized the "leaders" of the white supremacy movement have become.
https://www.wired.com/2016/10/alt-right-...ist-cabal/

But I think it's important for "educated members of the" whatever to act a bit differently.
We generally have a more firm grip on reality and don't jump to unwarranted conclusions.
The left has a tenancy to "radicalize" as well as the right.
And all these hot button issues serve to do is divide people who would otherwise share about 99% of the same issues.
It's all meant to make it impossible for the majority of people to come together and fix their economic hardships.
Grinding the same old axes is just the rats taking the bait.
It's a shell game played by these 2 parties and 2 pundits on either side of a table that define reality for most people.
It's a shell game.
Don't play.

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