Racism in the US - how bad is it?
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27-09-2017, 10:23 AM
RE: Racism in the US - how bad is it?
Quote:Racism in the US - how bad is it?

this guy is President..





does that answer your question?

The more one asserts their own unquestioned preconceived beliefs, the more demanding I will be for empirical evidence for I will accept nothing else in place of it
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27-09-2017, 10:25 AM
RE: Racism in the US - how bad is it?
(27-09-2017 10:19 AM)BikerDude Wrote:  
(27-09-2017 10:09 AM)onlinebiker Wrote:  I think you're talking perception, not fact.

When an officer is exhonrrated in a shooting - the people who called for the cop's head on a platter ignore the finding by 12 citizens and then blame "the system" as being broken.. It never occurs to them that maybe the officer WAS justified in a use of force.


It makes it easier the next time, to "know" the cop is guilty, despite never seeing any direct evidence or firsthand testimony.

I gotta say.
I find the exoneration of a lot of these cops very disturbing.
In a lot of instances there is video.
Hell the last guy said on the radio he was going to kill the "N..." before he got there.

Yeah. Not a very good thing to say.

But - that's not evidentiary to the findings of guilt.

That's the problem - so many of these videos do NOT show any real evidence, but do prejudice those seeing them.

Like the woman making the video AFTER her husband was shot. It does nothing to prove or disprove the officer's guilt in the matter - but sure makes the viewer WANT the fucker to be guilty.

.......................................

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27-09-2017, 10:32 AM (This post was last modified: 27-09-2017 11:09 AM by BikerDude.)
RE: Racism in the US - how bad is it?
(27-09-2017 10:16 AM)Anjele Wrote:  
(27-09-2017 10:15 AM)BikerDude Wrote:  You are correct.
But my expectations are dropping rapidly.
I would remind that I simply stated that everything that you are claiming runs contrary to my experiences. And when I suggested the I would need to take you claims on faith and asked for some form of documentation you devolved into a spiral of accusations and name calling.
Up until that point as far as I can see I was being perfectly polite and my sin is in questioning you. And doing so politely as far as I can see.

I did provide documentation.

I claimed these things run contrary to my experiences.
You sighted 2 incidents. One happened in 1991 the other in 1996.
Then you immediately started calling me a racist for suggesting that you might be engaging in fear mongering.
I am 100% open to believing that things have suddenly blown into a full blown racist explosion as some suggest. But the reality is that I just don't see it myself.
I do hope that you can find some way of continuing to engage in a discussion since you do come from the hotbed of this sort of racism. I would like to hear what you have to say.
I still contend that racism is nowhere near the problem it was not very long ago.
I am willing to take it on faith that things that don't rise to a level of crime are happening.
And maybe a lot worse. But as I've said over and over it doesn't happen here.
I don't experience it. But I don't live where you do.

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27-09-2017, 10:34 AM (This post was last modified: 27-09-2017 10:56 AM by BikerDude.)
RE: Racism in the US - how bad is it?
(27-09-2017 10:25 AM)onlinebiker Wrote:  
(27-09-2017 10:19 AM)BikerDude Wrote:  I gotta say.
I find the exoneration of a lot of these cops very disturbing.
In a lot of instances there is video.
Hell the last guy said on the radio he was going to kill the "N..." before he got there.

Yeah. Not a very good thing to say.

But - that's not evidentiary to the findings of guilt.

That's the problem - so many of these videos do NOT show any real evidence, but do prejudice those seeing them.

Like the woman making the video AFTER her husband was shot. It does nothing to prove or disprove the officer's guilt in the matter - but sure makes the viewer WANT the fucker to be guilty.

Yeah but there have been plenty of others.
Enough that I feel 100% confident that we have a problem.
It might not be as big of a problem as a lot of people make it out to be but it's impossible to sweep it under the rug.
And I mean cmon.
If he wasn't a cop and was just a guy who was accused of murder and they had a tape of him saying he was going to kill the victim recorded moments before he killed him, would he get off?
This is the problem.
We deal in extremes. People defend the cops no matter what.
And others condemn the cop no matter what.
A wonderful little microcosm of our pathetic political landscape.
Where reality subsides to the choosing of sides.

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27-09-2017, 10:56 AM (This post was last modified: 27-09-2017 10:59 AM by ClydeLee.)
RE: Racism in the US - how bad is it?
(27-09-2017 10:09 AM)onlinebiker Wrote:  
(27-09-2017 09:10 AM)ClydeLee Wrote:  That's why the issue angering people is when police kill black people they aren't punished or charged as notably in cases where it's the white victim slain. Like that a bit ago Australian women killed during a noise complaint and the mayor got the police chief let go and officer punished.

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I think you're talking perception, not fact.

When an officer is exhonrrated in a shooting - the people who called for the cop's head on a platter ignore the finding by 12 citizens and then blame "the system" as being broken.. It never occurs to them that maybe the officer WAS justified in a use of force.


It makes it easier the next time, to "know" the cop is guilty, despite never seeing any direct evidence or firsthand testimony.
Huh, a lot of the cases don't go to 12 citizens to decide... they're not being tried or getting close to that point. They're being deemed not worthy of indictment by internal investigation.

If these were cases of jury's finding cops innocent with a trial record that would be a different reality than closed door no need conclusions for displaying facts.

The police department and policy's of holding their decisions in secret is why there are no facts in cases like that you speak on... but there's some cases the outrage is swift by those of authority, such as the Minnesota police chief removed by force of the mayor in the Australian woman shooting.

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27-09-2017, 11:13 AM
RE: Racism in the US - how bad is it?
(27-09-2017 10:32 AM)BikerDude Wrote:  
(27-09-2017 10:16 AM)Anjele Wrote:  I did provide documentation.

I claimed these things run contrary to my experiences.
You sighted 2 incidents. One happened in 1991 the other in 1996.
Then you immediately started calling me a racist for suggesting that you might be engaging in fear mongering.
I am 100% open to believing that things have suddenly blown into a full blown racist explosion as some suggest. But the reality is that I just don't see it myself.
I do hope that you can find some way of continuing to engage in a discussion since you do come from the hotbed of this sort of racism. I would like to hear what you have to say.
I still contend that racism is nowhere near the problem it was not very long ago.
I am willing to take it on faith that things that don't rise to a level of crime are happening.
And maybe a lot worse. But as I've said over and over it doesn't happen here.
I don't experience it. But I don't live where you do.
And if I go to the Southern Poverty Law Center I don't see anything that really looks much different than the same level of racist crime.
I'm not excusing any racist crime. But I contend that we are winning and it's on the decline.
It might have the occasional blip up a bit or down a bit but it looks to me like it's been fairly consistent.

Let me see if I understand. Since you haven't witnessed racism, particularly in your neighborhood with the one black family, you don't think it exists elsewhere?

I assume you have access to regular meals and a roof over your head...does this mean that you don't believe there are people who go hungry on a regular basis or who are living on the street?

There's a world outside your bubble. The problem will come for you when your bubble is breached. Just because there's no direct effect on you doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

See here they are the bruises some were self-inflicted and some showed up along the way. - JF
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27-09-2017, 11:13 AM
RE: Racism in the US - how bad is it?
(27-09-2017 12:20 AM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  ... I'm talking almost every time I made an arrest on a black suspect, they throw punches, swing elbows, kick etc. Most white suspects will do exactly as they're told. Even if they're not guilty. They don't protest. Or argue uncontrollably. I'd say resisting arrest was added to about 2% of my white suspect cases (usually drunks) but close to 80% of my black suspects resisted arrest...

I really think it's about time that you gave up your obvious pretense of ever having been an LEO, presumably in order to add some sort of perceived "authority" to your comments.

From what I've seen of the comments you post here, you simply don't display the acuity of mind, the compassion, the judgment, or the prudence necessary to being a good cop. Your typically alt-right comments are usually willfully confrontational, sophomoric, and socially ill-informed.

I'd be surprised if you'd pass the psychological tests for any police force in the world with your mindset.

I'm a creationist... I believe that man created God.
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27-09-2017, 11:26 AM
RE: Racism in the US - how bad is it?
Not really related to the subject of the OP, but might be of interesting to anyone with an interest in the civil rights movement in general.

I was at the Martin Luther King Jr. national historic site in Atlanta yesterday for a project kickoff meeting with the National Park Service. We are going to be doing an inventory of the Park's museum collection there.

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27-09-2017, 11:43 AM (This post was last modified: 27-09-2017 11:47 AM by BikerDude.)
RE: Racism in the US - how bad is it?
(27-09-2017 11:13 AM)Anjele Wrote:  
(27-09-2017 10:32 AM)BikerDude Wrote:  I claimed these things run contrary to my experiences.
You sighted 2 incidents. One happened in 1991 the other in 1996.
Then you immediately started calling me a racist for suggesting that you might be engaging in fear mongering.
I am 100% open to believing that things have suddenly blown into a full blown racist explosion as some suggest. But the reality is that I just don't see it myself.
I do hope that you can find some way of continuing to engage in a discussion since you do come from the hotbed of this sort of racism. I would like to hear what you have to say.
I still contend that racism is nowhere near the problem it was not very long ago.
I am willing to take it on faith that things that don't rise to a level of crime are happening.
And maybe a lot worse. But as I've said over and over it doesn't happen here.
I don't experience it. But I don't live where you do.
And if I go to the Southern Poverty Law Center I don't see anything that really looks much different than the same level of racist crime.
I'm not excusing any racist crime. But I contend that we are winning and it's on the decline.
It might have the occasional blip up a bit or down a bit but it looks to me like it's been fairly consistent.

Let me see if I understand. Since you haven't witnessed racism, particularly in your neighborhood with the one black family, you don't think it exists elsewhere?

I assume you have access to regular meals and a roof over your head...does this mean that you don't believe there are people who go hungry on a regular basis or who are living on the street?

There's a world outside your bubble. The problem will come for you when your bubble is breached. Just because there's no direct effect on you doesn't mean it doesn't happen.
No again. You are purposely distorting things.
I know that racism is real. And I KNOW that it is not as bad as it used to be.
If I am wrong then it is up to someone who knows different to rationally make a case otherwise using more than a contention that it is. And without insisting on fucking name calling and accusations of racism and my living in a fucking bubble.
If I'm in a bubble then it's a bubble that I share with most other people who don't come from where people apparently like to breed with their sisters.

As I sit here now I have a black guy on the other side of the cubical wall from me, a guy from india sitting behind me, 3 more from india in the next set of cubes and 2 asians in the same area. There is no name calling racism no difficulties at all.
In building after building all over a large campus of professional buildings.
I am in a semi large city where I routinely go to black neighborhoods for various purposes and do not experience any racism or difficulties.
Like any place else we have the occasional instances of racism like the rhodes scholar who decide to make a "death ray" using stuff he got at home depot.
But over all we have the usual small percentage of racist pond scum as we've had for quite a while and it typically doesn't even rise to a noticeable level.

So you are telling me that the south is exploding with racism (more than the usual from the fucking pig sty of the country)? Enlighten me!
And while we are at it, if this is all true, then what in the fuck is wrong with all of you inbred fucking morons down there that you just can't seem to get your shit together?
Oh sorry.
See you've had an effect. It's rubbed off.
I guess I'm living in a bubble.

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27-09-2017, 11:54 AM
RE: Racism in the US - how bad is it?
(27-09-2017 09:47 AM)BikerDude Wrote:  
(27-09-2017 09:38 AM)wazzel Wrote:  I am sure prejudice exist in both directions, but "the other guy is doing it too" is no justification for bad behavior. For the racism issue to be solved that kind of thinking has to go away and people need to extend a hand in friendship first and quit waiting for the other side to do so it first.

Being a white guy in the south I never even think that. I expect everyone to carry out their job with the same level of professionalism I would.

I'm not as sure as you are.
If I (perhaps correctly) felt that I was kept from a better job I might (and I suspect you might) have certain unsavory thought run through your mind.
I think anyone would.

This whole thing is one area (probably the only area) where something Trump had to say actually makes sense. When talking about inner city crime in Chicago he said the fix is "jobs, jobs, jobs, jobs"
I really do agree.
The way this gets fixed is when there is a black guy in a suit standing next to me and a white guy fixing the fries and a black guy cooking the burger.
As long as there is a real us 'vs' them economic line it won't get fixed.
Individuals can fight instances of racism but unless the underlying conditions that sustain it are addressed it isn't going anywhere.
Detroit before the death of the auto industry 'vs' Detroit after.
The highest crime areas are also economically depressed.
More than a hand in friendship is needed.
And until they are you are going to have fear and racism.
Attitude is only going to go so far in fixing that.
But yeah. It's a good start.
And I am NOT talking about a hand out.
I'm talking opportunity.

That is to bad. Despite our differences we humans are far more alike than different. You are wrong about me, I stand on my merits and I never begrudge a person getting ahead, even if I get passed over.

Job are only one piece of a very complicated puzzle. Add a bunch of low paying jobs and I doubt you will see much difference. Improve the education system, add good paying jobs with potential for advancement, clean up the crime, etc, etc. These issues are far to complex for one step simple solutions.

It gets fixed when we see everyone as equal humans regardless of race, religion, gender, income level, etc, etc, etc. Putting once group down so one can be brought us does not solve squat and builds resentment.

Big problems get solved by breaking them down into little parts and working through them one at a time. Individual relationships between people from different groups goes a long way in race relations. I have worked internationally in places that as a white guy I was the minority. You can break down lots of barriers by sitting down and talking about family, hobbies, vacations and a whole lot of other ways you can connect on a personal level and come to realize you are not that different.
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