Racism is alive and well.
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08-07-2016, 12:34 AM
RE: Racism is alive and well.
(08-07-2016 12:29 AM)oneofshibumi Wrote:  Has Bernie spoken ill of “White” people? Bernie has not, and therefore your example is flawed by using Trump and Bernie.
Sanders once said that white people don't know what it's like to be poor and that they don't know what it's like to be living in the ghetto.

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08-07-2016, 01:55 AM
RE: Racism is alive and well.
Hi,

I don't think anyone would deny that a white face is a superb passport in the Western world. I have one; used to go on holiday with an afro Caribbean friend. He would get stopped at airport security every single frickin time! I was not stopped once. Coincidence?

D.
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08-07-2016, 07:28 AM (This post was last modified: 08-07-2016 07:52 AM by Grasshopper.)
RE: Racism is alive and well.
(07-07-2016 07:05 PM)Vosur Wrote:  
(07-07-2016 02:28 PM)Birdguy1979 Wrote:  Black people are not disadvantaged anymore unless they choose to be. If they want to succeed they have the advantage. I do the DMV work for the dealer I work for. I had a black guy behind me that I talked to a little. I try to be helpful, so I answered questions he had about what he needed. Every time the stinking line moved he tried to step around me. I said nothing and made sure I didn't let him disrespect me. The problem is that there is an attitude that they (black people) are owed something. We already give them first preference for jobs, help getting a career after prison if they went that route, among many other things. Also, I owe them nothing. My ancestors never owned slaves. There is a word for those who have ancestors that owned slaves and were rich and powerful back in those days "Politicians". Most of them are old money. It is also thanks to white people in the first place that black people are free now. Spoiler alert, white people fought the civil fucking war to free them. I know that black people also fought in that war, but it would not have happened if white (males) did not also fight for that cause.

(07-07-2016 03:24 PM)Grasshopper Wrote:  This post almost leaves me speechless. It is a perfect advertisement for the thread title. Gee, I'll bet you wish you were black, so you could get all those "advantages". LOL.
I don't understand these types of responses. The only thing you accomplish by responding to him this way is to show everyone that you don't know how to counter his arguments with something of substance. I also don't understand why you decided to put the word "advantages" in quotes. Are you denying the existence of racist policies like Affirmative Action and the benefits it offers to black people regardless of their economic status?

I acknowledge your point. Yes, it would have been better to address the content of his post with reasoned arguments. But (1) I didn't have time to do that; (2) Such arguments would be lost on him, because his mind is already made up; (3) His post really did leave me speechless. How do you respond to such drivel?

As for "advantages" -- yes, there are such things as Affirmative Action, and yes, such policies could be considered racist. Nevertheless, Black people in America are still fighting an uphill battle. I have seen job applications tossed in the trash as soon as the (Black) applicant walks out the door; I have seen police profiling Black people in ways that they would never do with me (I'm White); I see the way the media (and certain politicians) portray Black people (to be fair, Muslims, Hispanics, and women get the same treatment). Affirmative Action was an attempt to level the playing field, and it's still not level. People in positions of power and prosperity are overwhelmingly White males.

Birdguy likes to pretend that all Black people are living in some sort of Paradise to which he's denied access. That doesn't come close to matching the reality that I see every day. People on welfare "don't have to work", but they're not living in Paradise. I wouldn't trade my life for theirs. Having to work isn't the worst thing in the world. One of the things that is worse is wanting to work and not being able to because nobody will hire you.
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08-07-2016, 07:54 AM
RE: Racism is alive and well.
(08-07-2016 12:29 AM)oneofshibumi Wrote:  Birdguy1979 wrote:
Quote:Racism is alive and well.
Saw this on the back of a bus. If it read "White Men for Trump", there would be a fucking riot. Maybe that is what white people need to start doing. Minorities have been doing it for a long time now. Now they can blame all violence on racism and it is not their fault.

Response: Birdguy1979, how quickly we forget that Trump has said racist/sexist things about African Americans, Mexican Americans, and Women. Trump is supported by the KKK (White Men for Trump) has same meaning as the KKK. Has Bernie uttered some “African American Supremacy” slogan? Has Bernie spoken ill of “White” people? Bernie has not, and therefore your example is flawed by using Trump and Bernie.

Just because a slogan references “race” does not make a slogan racist. Racism is about a social power differential. Why do you believe its racist? Would you call yourself racist? How do you define a racist?

For example, Aaryn Gries does not believe she is racist. She says racist things because she grew up in a racist environment. Aaryn’s early childhood exposure to racism has permeated her subconscious with racist habits of mind and is used as a high value within heraxiology for labeling, understanding, and use within her reality.(2)

I use an Asimov-like robotic rule for cultures/ethnicities.

1) Any culture must respect other cultures which follow this rule. In other words, if your culture respects other cultures then it deserves the respect of other cultures. Cultures which do NOT respect other cultures do not deserve respect.

2) No culture is better than any other culture which follows rule one. Certain cultures may be better for an individual, family, tribe or community, but this does not apply to all people, not in a neighborhood, town, city, state or nation.

3) No culture has the right to force or insist that its values and rules of culture and behavior be required of people who do not sigh on, buy into or agree with that behavior—whether the person is a member of the culture or not. On the other hand, a specific church, synagogue, temple, mosque, private group, has the right to set requirements for its members.

White privilege does not follow rule 1, 2, or 3. Moreover, SURPRISE Whitelandia doesn’t exist, it’s a fiction created to unite all European people counterpoised against anyone of “color” (used in the sense as all non-Whites). You’re not pure White, your German, English, etc. Different ethnicities means the idea of a “pure race” cannot exist in America, or anywhere else for that matter.

Actually I see on craigslist all the time, black people calling for "Kill Whitey". If a white person posted "Kill Blacks", there would be a shit storm and that person would be charged with a hate crime. Who's racist?
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08-07-2016, 07:58 AM
RE: Racism is alive and well.
(08-07-2016 07:54 AM)Birdguy1979 Wrote:  
(08-07-2016 12:29 AM)oneofshibumi Wrote:  Birdguy1979 wrote:
Response: Birdguy1979, how quickly we forget that Trump has said racist/sexist things about African Americans, Mexican Americans, and Women. Trump is supported by the KKK (White Men for Trump) has same meaning as the KKK. Has Bernie uttered some “African American Supremacy” slogan? Has Bernie spoken ill of “White” people? Bernie has not, and therefore your example is flawed by using Trump and Bernie.

Just because a slogan references “race” does not make a slogan racist. Racism is about a social power differential. Why do you believe its racist? Would you call yourself racist? How do you define a racist?

For example, Aaryn Gries does not believe she is racist. She says racist things because she grew up in a racist environment. Aaryn’s early childhood exposure to racism has permeated her subconscious with racist habits of mind and is used as a high value within heraxiology for labeling, understanding, and use within her reality.(2)

I use an Asimov-like robotic rule for cultures/ethnicities.

1) Any culture must respect other cultures which follow this rule. In other words, if your culture respects other cultures then it deserves the respect of other cultures. Cultures which do NOT respect other cultures do not deserve respect.

2) No culture is better than any other culture which follows rule one. Certain cultures may be better for an individual, family, tribe or community, but this does not apply to all people, not in a neighborhood, town, city, state or nation.

3) No culture has the right to force or insist that its values and rules of culture and behavior be required of people who do not sigh on, buy into or agree with that behavior—whether the person is a member of the culture or not. On the other hand, a specific church, synagogue, temple, mosque, private group, has the right to set requirements for its members.

White privilege does not follow rule 1, 2, or 3. Moreover, SURPRISE Whitelandia doesn’t exist, it’s a fiction created to unite all European people counterpoised against anyone of “color” (used in the sense as all non-Whites). You’re not pure White, your German, English, etc. Different ethnicities means the idea of a “pure race” cannot exist in America, or anywhere else for that matter.

Actually I see on craigslist all the time, black people calling for "Kill Whitey". If a white person posted "Kill Blacks", there would be a shit storm and that person would be charged with a hate crime. Who's racist?

Everybody is racist. It's human nature. Some of us fight it. You wallow in it.
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08-07-2016, 08:06 AM
RE: Racism is alive and well.
(08-07-2016 07:58 AM)Grasshopper Wrote:  
(08-07-2016 07:54 AM)Birdguy1979 Wrote:  Actually I see on craigslist all the time, black people calling for "Kill Whitey". If a white person posted "Kill Blacks", there would be a shit storm and that person would be charged with a hate crime. Who's racist?

Everybody is racist. It's human nature. Some of us fight it. You wallow in it.

No, I simply want equality under the law. I learned the hard way that respect has to be a 2 way street. One must give it to get it. I treat everyone nicely, unless they disrespect me. It gives minorities an unfair advantage when they can hurl racial slurs at me and if I do the same back, I get hit with hate crime prosecution. It is like taking a crowd of people and giving them guns, then giving the rest nothing. The ones that the law gives an unfair advantage to one group, they will abuse it.
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08-07-2016, 08:11 AM
RE: Racism is alive and well.
(08-07-2016 07:58 AM)Grasshopper Wrote:  
(08-07-2016 07:54 AM)Birdguy1979 Wrote:  Actually I see on craigslist all the time, black people calling for "Kill Whitey". If a white person posted "Kill Blacks", there would be a shit storm and that person would be charged with a hate crime. Who's racist?

Everybody is racist. It's human nature. Some of us fight it. You wallow in it.

If everyone is racist, that would make the word meaningless.

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08-07-2016, 08:16 AM
RE: Racism is alive and well.
(08-07-2016 08:11 AM)Metazoa Zeke Wrote:  
(08-07-2016 07:58 AM)Grasshopper Wrote:  Everybody is racist. It's human nature. Some of us fight it. You wallow in it.

If everyone is racist, that would make the word meaningless.

It's a matter of degree. I'll rephrase it and say that everyone has racist tendencies. We inherently distrust or fear people who are different. We don't call someone racist unless they act out those feelings. But we all have them.
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08-07-2016, 10:57 PM (This post was last modified: 08-07-2016 11:03 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: Racism is alive and well.
"Hey, you know something people?
I'm not black
But there's a whole lots a times
I wish I could say I'm not white" - Zappa, 1965




#sigh
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08-07-2016, 11:38 PM
RE: Racism is alive and well.
(08-07-2016 12:34 AM)Vosur Wrote:  
(08-07-2016 12:29 AM)oneofshibumi Wrote:  Has Bernie spoken ill of “White” people? Bernie has not, and therefore your example is flawed by using Trump and Bernie.
Sanders once said that white people don't know what it's like to be poor and that they don't know what it's like to be living in the ghetto.

Vosur, I believe you are correct, Sanders did say, “When you’re white, you don’t know what it’s like to be living in a ghetto. You don’t know what it’s like to be poor. You don’t know what it’s like to be hassled when you walk down the street or you get dragged out of a car.” During the Democratic debate in Flint, MI, Sanders did make that statement. Factually, he is wrong since more Whites live in poverty than African-Americans. More Whites are on welfare than African-Americans, etc. And it has been that way since I was born, in 1959.

However, to be fair and place the sentences in context one needs to read the transcript. The whole paragraph prior to “White don’t know ghetto” statement, talks about the African American experiences which he has heard from members of Black Lives Matter Organization. Within that context, within those changes in context, the boundaries of the statement turn out to be quite different from what you are insinuating. While you can be White living in poverty, police do not hassle Whites, in the same way they hassle African-Americans (and those who look African-American). So I disagree, that Sanders and Trump are comparable racists.

Fox News and other right-wing commentators tried to paint Sanders as a racist, but they can only do that by providing sentences without context. Trump has been a racist since the mid-80s. Even adding context to Trumps words and he still is racist. And Trump has shown himself to be racist in many occasions, and when asked to clarify, rarely does he walk back, most frequently he repeats the racist comment, or he doubles down on it.

We are in disagreement that Sanders and Trump are both racist. You have not convinced me that Sanders is racist. One comment does not make a racist, especially when context clarifies the statement. Trump cannot or will not clarify his statements, and has a 30+ year history of saying and acting as a racist.
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