Racism is alive and well.
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
09-07-2016, 12:25 AM
RE: Racism is alive and well.
(07-07-2016 07:05 PM)Vosur Wrote:  I also don't understand why you decided to put the word "advantages" in quotes. Are you denying the existence of racist policies like Affirmative Action and the benefits it offers to black people regardless of their economic status?

Speaking as a white member of an interracial family which includes blacks, I'm comfortable saying that those "advantages" are outweighed by several other factors: difficulty in finding decent housing outside the projects because of your name, or the education you received being funded by ghetto-level property taxes, or being passed over for a job though you were the most qualified applicant ... or looking down the wrong end of a gun during a traffic stop because you are driving that nice car you earnt by not settling for the status-quo and worked your ass off for.

Affirmative action is in place to redress long-standng sociocultural limitations and prejudices which have not yet been eliminated. If the playing-field were actually level, complaints against it would cetainly seem valid. But racism is alive and well in America. AA is one tool to address it, and in my opinion rightful.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 4 users Like Thumpalumpacus's post
09-07-2016, 01:27 AM
RE: Racism is alive and well.
(08-07-2016 08:06 AM)Birdguy1979 Wrote:  It gives minorities an unfair advantage when they can hurl racial slurs at me and if I do the same back, I get hit with hate crime prosecution.

Not if you live in America. If you do, name your state, and link to that state's code allowing such prosecution.

Smells like pure-D bullshit, to me.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like Thumpalumpacus's post
09-07-2016, 05:02 PM
RE: Racism is alive and well.
(09-07-2016 12:25 AM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  
(07-07-2016 07:05 PM)Vosur Wrote:  I also don't understand why you decided to put the word "advantages" in quotes. Are you denying the existence of racist policies like Affirmative Action and the benefits it offers to black people regardless of their economic status?

Speaking as a white member of an interracial family which includes blacks, I'm comfortable saying that those "advantages" are outweighed by several other factors: difficulty in finding decent housing outside the projects because of your name, or the education you received being funded by ghetto-level property taxes, or being passed over for a job though you were the most qualified applicant ... or looking down the wrong end of a gun during a traffic stop because you are driving that nice car you earnt by not settling for the status-quo and worked your ass off for.

Affirmative action is in place to redress long-standng sociocultural limitations and prejudices which have not yet been eliminated. If the playing-field were actually level, complaints against it would cetainly seem valid. But racism is alive and well in America. AA is one tool to address it, and in my opinion rightful.

I think most people talking about the advantages of AA are out of their depth on the subject. There is so much that can be said on the issue of how easy it is for a black man to get a job it's not even funny. But it's a waste of time if people prefer the low information route of understanding the subject.

Here is just one of the studies I have seen that attempt to document the advantages that blacks enjoy in employment opportunities compared to whites. It is really easy for them. Because they have comparable chances to a white felon to get into a regular working class job.

Quote:Is racial discrimination a thing of the past?

Debates about the relevance of discrimination in today's society have been difficult to resolve, in part because of the challenges in identifying, measuring, and documenting its presence or absence in all but extreme cases. Discrimination is rarely something that can be observed explicitly.

To address these issues, I recently conducted a series of experiments investigating employment discrimination. In these experiments, which took place in Milwaukee and New York City, I hired young men to pose as job applicants, assigning them resumes with equal levels of education and experience, and sending them to apply for real entry-level job openings all over the city.

Team members also alternated presenting information about a fictitious criminal record (a drug felony), which they “fessed up to” on the application form. During nearly a year of fieldwork, teams of testers audited hundreds of employers, applying for a wide range of entry level jobs such as waiters, sales assistants, laborers, warehouse workers, couriers, and customer service representatives.

The results of these studies were startling. Among those with no criminal record, white applicants were more than twice as likely to receive a callback relative to equally qualified black applicants. Even more troubling, whites with a felony conviction fared just as well, if not better, than a black applicant with a clean background.

Racial disparities have been documented in many contexts, but here, comparing the two job applicants side by side, we are confronted with a troubling reality: Being black in America today is just about the same as having a felony conviction in terms of one’s chances of finding a job.

The young black men posing as job applicants in this study were bright college kids, models of discipline and hard work; and yet, even in this best case scenario, these applicants were routinely overlooked simply on the basis of the color of their skin. The results of this study suggest that black men must work at least twice as hard as equally qualified whites simply to overcome the stigma of their skin color.


http://ac360.blogs.cnn.com/2008/08/09/st...-for-hire/

We have to remember that what we observe is not nature herself, but nature exposed to our method of questioning ~ Werner Heisenberg
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like tomilay's post
09-07-2016, 06:00 PM
RE: Racism is alive and well.
(08-07-2016 08:06 AM)Birdguy1979 Wrote:  
(08-07-2016 07:58 AM)Grasshopper Wrote:  Everybody is racist. It's human nature. Some of us fight it. You wallow in it.

No, I simply want equality under the law. I learned the hard way that respect has to be a 2 way street. One must give it to get it. I treat everyone nicely, unless they disrespect me. It gives minorities an unfair advantage when they can hurl racial slurs at me and if I do the same back, I get hit with hate crime prosecution. It is like taking a crowd of people and giving them guns, then giving the rest nothing. The ones that the law gives an unfair advantage to one group, they will abuse it.

I just don't think it's any minorities' fault that your life sucks. I live in an extremely diverse town (officially the most diverse town in my state) and have for 17 years. Daily, I work with, do business with, stand in line with, walk past, etc., people of different races. I have never had someone hurl a racial slur at me or disrespect me.

I have to speculate that a significant portion of your bad experiences is self-generated.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes julep's post
10-07-2016, 01:58 AM
RE: Racism is alive and well.
Hi,

I worked as an inner city teacher for 20 years. Part of that work was as an employment adviser to young adults.

Once I was called to speak to a large group of Afro Caribbean unemployed. I started my usual pep talk, to stony silence. Then they hit me. Every one had above degree level education, some PhDs. All had immaculate cvs and character references, apart from work experience. They were bright, articulate and angry.

Phew!. Instead of talking I listened. I had no answers. What I didn't say to them, but thought, was " You will have to look for opportunities with your own kind." What a repellent thought. Huh

D.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
11-07-2016, 02:18 AM
RE: Racism is alive and well.
(09-07-2016 01:27 AM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  
(08-07-2016 08:06 AM)Birdguy1979 Wrote:  It gives minorities an unfair advantage when they can hurl racial slurs at me and if I do the same back, I get hit with hate crime prosecution.

Not if you live in America. If you do, name your state, and link to that state's code allowing such prosecution.

Smells like pure-D bullshit, to me.

... foot-tapping ...
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
11-07-2016, 10:01 PM
RE: Racism is alive and well.
(08-07-2016 07:54 AM)Birdguy1979 Wrote:  
(08-07-2016 12:29 AM)oneofshibumi Wrote:  Birdguy1979 wrote:
Response: Birdguy1979, how quickly we forget that Trump has said racist/sexist things about African Americans, Mexican Americans, and Women. Trump is supported by the KKK (White Men for Trump) has same meaning as the KKK. Has Bernie uttered some “African American Supremacy” slogan? Has Bernie spoken ill of “White” people? Bernie has not, and therefore your example is flawed by using Trump and Bernie.

Just because a slogan references “race” does not make a slogan racist. Racism is about a social power differential. Why do you believe its racist? Would you call yourself racist? How do you define a racist?

For example, Aaryn Gries does not believe she is racist. She says racist things because she grew up in a racist environment. Aaryn’s early childhood exposure to racism has permeated her subconscious with racist habits of mind and is used as a high value within heraxiology for labeling, understanding, and use within her reality.(2)

I use an Asimov-like robotic rule for cultures/ethnicities.

1) Any culture must respect other cultures which follow this rule. In other words, if your culture respects other cultures then it deserves the respect of other cultures. Cultures which do NOT respect other cultures do not deserve respect.

2) No culture is better than any other culture which follows rule one. Certain cultures may be better for an individual, family, tribe or community, but this does not apply to all people, not in a neighborhood, town, city, state or nation.

3) No culture has the right to force or insist that its values and rules of culture and behavior be required of people who do not sigh on, buy into or agree with that behavior—whether the person is a member of the culture or not. On the other hand, a specific church, synagogue, temple, mosque, private group, has the right to set requirements for its members.

White privilege does not follow rule 1, 2, or 3. Moreover, SURPRISE Whitelandia doesn’t exist, it’s a fiction created to unite all European people counterpoised against anyone of “color” (used in the sense as all non-Whites). You’re not pure White, your German, English, etc. Different ethnicities means the idea of a “pure race” cannot exist in America, or anywhere else for that matter.

Actually I see on craigslist all the time, black people calling for "Kill Whitey". If a white person posted "Kill Blacks", there would be a shit storm and that person would be charged with a hate crime. Who's racist?

You see on Craiglist all the time, Black people calling for "Kill Whitey"? I am shock! Could you please provide a link, after all, you see them all the time, and the time is now. In other words, provide evidence for your claims. After 3 decades of FOX News, talk has become cheap.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
12-07-2016, 06:18 AM
RE: Racism is alive and well.
(08-07-2016 11:38 PM)oneofshibumi Wrote:  
(08-07-2016 12:34 AM)Vosur Wrote:  Sanders once said that white people don't know what it's like to be poor and that they don't know what it's like to be living in the ghetto.

Vosur, I believe you are correct, Sanders did say, “When you’re white, you don’t know what it’s like to be living in a ghetto. You don’t know what it’s like to be poor. You don’t know what it’s like to be hassled when you walk down the street or you get dragged out of a car.” During the Democratic debate in Flint, MI, Sanders did make that statement. Factually, he is wrong since more Whites live in poverty than African-Americans. More Whites are on welfare than African-Americans, etc. And it has been that way since I was born, in 1959.

However, to be fair and place the sentences in context one needs to read the transcript. The whole paragraph prior to “White don’t know ghetto” statement, talks about the African American experiences which he has heard from members of Black Lives Matter Organization. Within that context, within those changes in context, the boundaries of the statement turn out to be quite different from what you are insinuating. While you can be White living in poverty, police do not hassle Whites, in the same way they hassle African-Americans (and those who look African-American). So I disagree, that Sanders and Trump are comparable racists.

Fox News and other right-wing commentators tried to paint Sanders as a racist, but they can only do that by providing sentences without context. Trump has been a racist since the mid-80s. Even adding context to Trumps words and he still is racist. And Trump has shown himself to be racist in many occasions, and when asked to clarify, rarely does he walk back, most frequently he repeats the racist comment, or he doubles down on it.

We are in disagreement that Sanders and Trump are both racist. You have not convinced me that Sanders is racist. One comment does not make a racist, especially when context clarifies the statement. Trump cannot or will not clarify his statements, and has a 30+ year history of saying and acting as a racist.

I say you are wrong. Police do not intentionally hassle black people. Go dress yourself in the baggy pants and have them droop to the bottom of your ass cheaks (like a two year old with an over filled diaper) while wearing a hoodie pulled over your face. Even if you are white, you will get hassled. There is a reason for police to target people dressed like that. Most of them either want to pretend they are gang members and drug dealers and many actually are. If someone is dressed like that, most likely they are armed and quite possibly have drugs on them. If you are walking down the street in Newark NJ and on one side you see a group of black people in ordinary clothing that fits and on the other are a bunch of white guys dressed as I described. Which ones are you going to avoid and which ones are you going to walk near? Myself, I am going to cross the road and walk by the black people. The ones dressed like thugs are either a bunch of posers that think they are ghetto black or they are actual thugs and won't think twice about robbing and killing someone that walks by. Think about it people, it is not even usually racism.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
12-07-2016, 09:14 AM
RE: Racism is alive and well.
(12-07-2016 06:18 AM)Birdguy1979 Wrote:  
(08-07-2016 11:38 PM)oneofshibumi Wrote:  Vosur, I believe you are correct, Sanders did say, “When you’re white, you don’t know what it’s like to be living in a ghetto. You don’t know what it’s like to be poor. You don’t know what it’s like to be hassled when you walk down the street or you get dragged out of a car.” During the Democratic debate in Flint, MI, Sanders did make that statement. Factually, he is wrong since more Whites live in poverty than African-Americans. More Whites are on welfare than African-Americans, etc. And it has been that way since I was born, in 1959.

However, to be fair and place the sentences in context one needs to read the transcript. The whole paragraph prior to “White don’t know ghetto” statement, talks about the African American experiences which he has heard from members of Black Lives Matter Organization. Within that context, within those changes in context, the boundaries of the statement turn out to be quite different from what you are insinuating. While you can be White living in poverty, police do not hassle Whites, in the same way they hassle African-Americans (and those who look African-American). So I disagree, that Sanders and Trump are comparable racists.

Fox News and other right-wing commentators tried to paint Sanders as a racist, but they can only do that by providing sentences without context. Trump has been a racist since the mid-80s. Even adding context to Trumps words and he still is racist. And Trump has shown himself to be racist in many occasions, and when asked to clarify, rarely does he walk back, most frequently he repeats the racist comment, or he doubles down on it.

We are in disagreement that Sanders and Trump are both racist. You have not convinced me that Sanders is racist. One comment does not make a racist, especially when context clarifies the statement. Trump cannot or will not clarify his statements, and has a 30+ year history of saying and acting as a racist.

I say you are wrong. Police do not intentionally hassle black people. Go dress yourself in the baggy pants and have them droop to the bottom of your ass cheaks (like a two year old with an over filled diaper) while wearing a hoodie pulled over your face. Even if you are white, you will get hassled. There is a reason for police to target people dressed like that. Most of them either want to pretend they are gang members and drug dealers and many actually are. If someone is dressed like that, most likely they are armed and quite possibly have drugs on them. If you are walking down the street in Newark NJ and on one side you see a group of black people in ordinary clothing that fits and on the other are a bunch of white guys dressed as I described. Which ones are you going to avoid and which ones are you going to walk near? Myself, I am going to cross the road and walk by the black people. The ones dressed like thugs are either a bunch of posers that think they are ghetto black or they are actual thugs and won't think twice about robbing and killing someone that walks by. Think about it people, it is not even usually racism.

Either way, it's stereotyping. I think the people with their pants halfway down look like idiots, but they are not all gang members or thugs. "Don't judge a book by its cover." And if you've been reading other posts in this thread, there are several examples of well-dressed, well-educated people being hassled by police or TSA (or being denied jobs) simply because of their skin color. It does happen. Racism exists, whether or not you believe it.

Actually, in your example, I would be less afraid of the people with their pants halfway down, because I can outrun them if I have to -- can't run worth shit with your pants halfway down.

Laugh out load
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
12-07-2016, 10:37 AM
RE: Racism is alive and well.
(12-07-2016 09:14 AM)Grasshopper Wrote:  
(12-07-2016 06:18 AM)Birdguy1979 Wrote:  I say you are wrong. Police do not intentionally hassle black people. Go dress yourself in the baggy pants and have them droop to the bottom of your ass cheaks (like a two year old with an over filled diaper) while wearing a hoodie pulled over your face. Even if you are white, you will get hassled. There is a reason for police to target people dressed like that. Most of them either want to pretend they are gang members and drug dealers and many actually are. If someone is dressed like that, most likely they are armed and quite possibly have drugs on them. If you are walking down the street in Newark NJ and on one side you see a group of black people in ordinary clothing that fits and on the other are a bunch of white guys dressed as I described. Which ones are you going to avoid and which ones are you going to walk near? Myself, I am going to cross the road and walk by the black people. The ones dressed like thugs are either a bunch of posers that think they are ghetto black or they are actual thugs and won't think twice about robbing and killing someone that walks by. Think about it people, it is not even usually racism.

Either way, it's stereotyping. I think the people with their pants halfway down look like idiots, but they are not all gang members or thugs. "Don't judge a book by its cover." And if you've been reading other posts in this thread, there are several examples of well-dressed, well-educated people being hassled by police or TSA (or being denied jobs) simply because of their skin color. It does happen. Racism exists, whether or not you believe it.

Actually, in your example, I would be less afraid of the people with their pants halfway down, because I can outrun them if I have to -- can't run worth shit with your pants halfway down.

Laugh out load

But bullets go a hell of a lot faster than you can ever run. Racism in some ways should exist. I would not put a muslim in charge of the TSA (you know the ones looking for bombs and other shit at the airports), nor would I have muslims in all the positions there. Drugs on a jet, illegal but is not going to blow up. Remember, they are allowed to lie about intent if it allows them to kill in the name of their religion. Or would you prefer that we put muslims in position where they can kill many others? If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it must be a duck. I would prefer the black person I was in line with the other day talking to that had clothes that fit and was able to treat me like a person over any race (including white) that is dressed in a way that is meant specifically to hide weapons, drugs, and identity. If you are a cop and you stop someone dressed as I described that when you tell them to show their hands and they reach under their wasteband or into their shirt, you should be ready to shoot them. I have watched cops and other shows like it. Usually disrespecting cops is a sure way to get arrested. There are black people that speed, run stop signs, and other things. The moment they get pulled over, they go off on the cop and scream racism. If you couple that with being dressed like a thug and not doing what you are told (resisting), you might get shot. If you are told to produce your license and registration and instead of reaching for your glove box you reach under your seat, it can be assumed that you are going for a weapon. If you for some reason have your information under your seat, you need to tell them that. If you have a good reason, like I had at one time they may have additional instructions for you. I had a car that I could no longer open the glove box on. The cop that pulled me over for a tail light being out had me get out and get the documents. It was that simple. Anyone can potentially be packing, but those that are will say and do anything to get away. If that means screaming racism, it is the easiest way.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply
Forum Jump: