Racism on this forum
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09-09-2012, 05:07 AM
RE: Racism on this forum
(08-09-2012 01:41 PM)N.E.OhioAtheist Wrote:  I've been questing the moderators about what needs to be done with people who use hate speech that is racism. They say it is free speech and will not ban anyone who uses it. I find this cowardice and reprehensible. If you can ban a spammer or someone who threatens anyone this is not a free speech site. You already set rules and guide lines to be on here. If you are a total racist and use that then you should have ramifications from your actions. I know we all get into a heated debate and say things we regret. A warning would be good and then if it continues out you go. I am sick of seeing people use words that are repulsive. I am Hispanic and am repulsed by the word spic. I cant see any reason for it on here. In the past I've been belittle and cursed at and have no problem handling it. I rather not have that happen but I can deal with it. BUT racism is in a whole new ball game. I consider that HATE speech and has no place on TTA. If you want to keep new and old people something must be done. I am really upset about this. If no one cares than this forum, This is not the place for me. This is one Hispanic who will wonder why. You cant run in a movie theater and scream FIRE. Free speech has it's price.

Stop squabbling amongst yourselves. You are all unworthy to assume you know the objective moral answer, so we must, as with all things in life, turn to our Lord; Christopher Hitchens. And it's strange that you mentioned yelling Fire, because that's exactly what he addresses, using it as a metaphor to point out that sometimes it's the firefighters who are shouting Fire and we are free to decide if the claim deserves credence. Since we don't and can't have an elective to decide for all of us what is allowed and what is true, there can't be a censor on what is claimed, in this case claims of a fire, in the next case claims of a corrupt government or an unjust action. We as moderators realize that we don't have the right to decide for every member what is acceptable language and terminology, and so we decide to allow everything and let you set your own guidelines.

So, like we said, Ignore the motherfucker.



"Freedom of Speech Includes the Freedom to Hate"





Turn off all distractions and watch all 20 minutes.

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09-09-2012, 06:55 AM (This post was last modified: 09-09-2012 06:58 AM by Dom.)
RE: Racism on this forum
Earmuffs,

I don't know anything about you as a person. I never met you.

From your post here it sounds like you had plenty of grief. So you lash out.

Now we have an honest statement, and a real issue, and that does change things.

I provoked you on purpose to prove a point. Words do hurt. Different words hurt different people for different reasons. My words did hurt you. To the point where you wanted to leave. See how that is?

Now I take them back. Does that make everything ok for you? My guess is no. There is no taking words back. Once they leave your mouth, that's it. The damage is done.

But now we know that you weren't really making a statement by using these words (as in: they are just words and everyone uses them and people need to be desensitized). You were treating others the way you were treated.

Don't you think it's time to stop the cycle? Why fill the world with hurt? They hurt you, you hurt them, they hurt someone else, that person hurts the next guy and we have - a mess.

You are a smart person, and you are likeable. Lots of people like you here and you are one of us. Personally I would miss you if you left.

These type dynamics are just destructive. Now we have two people who walked off in pain - Ohio and Muffs. Both good members of our group. And for what?

I sincerely hope you both come back. And we can all grow from the experience.

Re. Black folk calling each other nigga: It's like Erx calling Girly names. They both know it's meant in good spirit and just banter. If a stranger came along and called Girly names, he likely wouldn't laugh.

Language has many levels. There is the basic English you find in books. Then you have accents for various countries. If you put an Irish person with a person from the deep south in the US, they will barely understand each other.

Then you have dialects. Regional variations on language. The same words may be used to mean different things.

Then you have the language of familiarity. For example, youth always develops new words and new meanings for old words. Like "cool" and "bad" and "awesome" etc etc. These words create a sense of community. They unite youth versus adults. That's why every generation has to come up with new words, their parents are not using them. They eventually get integrated into society as a whole or just fall by the wayside.

Then you have "in-jokes". They are usually confined to family or a close knit group. Outsiders either don't understand them at all, or attach different meanings to them.

And then you have banter between friends. They make up their own rules. Here you often find insults being traded - but no one is offended because they have taken on a different meaning, one that reinforces closeness.

There are many levels and nuances to language, and words are not just words. They mean different things to different people and in different situations.

Words are amazing, depending on when and where and how they are used, they can have totally different meanings and have a totally different impact.

Muffs, I am sorry for what I said about you. I did it to show you something. And I bothered to do so because I like you, and I want you to have it easier in life. If you master the art of using words well, your life will be so much better.

I hope this discussion wasn't all wasted, that it doesn't leave a bad after taste, and that both of you, Ohio and Muffs, come back and continue to contribute here as before.

Because there are really no issues, just misplaced words.

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09-09-2012, 10:20 AM
RE: Racism on this forum
(09-09-2012 05:00 AM)earmuffs Wrote:  
(09-09-2012 04:46 AM)GirlyMan Wrote:  At the end of the day you're some punk white kid trying to act cool and I'm your father's age trying to explain why you're not cool, not cool at all. Goddam CuntMuffin.

Act cool? Who the fuck do you think I'm trying to impress Girly? You don't think I don't know you people?

I guarantee I know more then anyone else here about those things

Quote:Hmm... lemme see...

Killed
Tortured
Raped
Sodomized
Beaten
Degraded
Victimized
Abused
Preyed Upon

... and the list goes on. In your mind, it's one little word. In reality, it is a contemptuous term, used when oppressing. What's listed above really did happen.

I'm the social freak. I'm the outcast, the ones the kids throw rocks at. Not so black down down the road.
You think I don't know? You don't know shit. NOT SHIT. About being the butts of all jokes in conversation or media. You don't know what it's like growing up being completely different. At least blacks have other blacks, who the fucked did I have Girly? Ha!? WHO! Fucking nobody! that's who, NO FUCKING BODY.
You people are the only people who even know. I can't even fucking tell anybody!
Every day I'm reminded of what a freak I am, the odd one out, not natural, weird, strange.

Tell me I'm just some punk ass white kid, pfft. I know more then you ever fucking will, you don't know what I go through every day, what it's like to fucking hate yourself.
That's why I do it, that's why I take a stand. Because we can't let these fucking cunts win. We can't let cunts who seek out the different and discriminate win by making words like nigger or spic or faggot bad words, offensive. Because like I said, that's the fucking tragedy! When words that describe what we are become offense.

So fuck you girly, fuck everyone else. Tell me I'm just ignorant white boy and I don't know shit, fuck all of you'll. Now if you'd excuse me I have an account to delete.


Come on, Muffs, no one wants to see you hurt or gone. We're just having a discussion about words. Apparently they do hold power despite our best efforts to say they don't. So take a deep breath, go have some stir-fry, and come back and tell us about your business plan for Muff's Hole. Thumbsup

It was just a fucking apple man, we're sorry okay? Please stop the madness Laugh out load
~Izel
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09-09-2012, 11:11 AM
RE: Racism on this forum
And Ohio, did you see Muff's pain? Do you now understand why he did what he did? That he has been through the mill?

Do you have the empathy to understand and forgive?

I sure hope so, I want the community to be whole again. There is a place for all of us here, as diverse as we may be, and whatever baggage we may be carrying.

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09-09-2012, 01:54 PM (This post was last modified: 09-09-2012 01:57 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: Racism on this forum
(09-09-2012 05:00 AM)earmuffs Wrote:  That's why I do it, that's why I take a stand. Because we can't let these fucking cunts win. We can't let cunts who seek out the different and discriminate win by making words like nigger or spic or faggot bad words, offensive. Because like I said, that's the fucking tragedy!

You're right, earmuffs. But those words won't be rendered innocuous just by repeated casual use. They got too much baggage. They're still too inflammatory for casual usage.

And I'm sorry for provoking you but what you're feeling is the same as what Ohio's feeling. That's the point.

(09-09-2012 06:55 AM)Dom Wrote:  It's like Erx calling Girly names.

The fuck? When? Where? I will so fucking fast track the Preacher to the Hellbound Bullet Train.

(09-09-2012 05:07 AM)Buddy Christ Wrote:  So, like we said, Ignore the motherfucker.
...
"Freedom of Speech Includes the Freedom to Hate"

That's how this place rolls. That's what I like about it. That's why I'm here.

As it was in the beginning is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.
And I will show you something different from either
Your shadow at morning striding behind you
Or your shadow at evening rising to meet you;
I will show you fear in a handful of dust.
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09-09-2012, 02:21 PM (This post was last modified: 09-09-2012 02:25 PM by Grassy Knoll.)
RE: Racism on this forum
Muffs, where do you think you're going? You can't leave until we finish our Risk game! Hopefully we never finish it of course Angel

I'm assuming the OP was referring to this post made by TrainWreck. To be offended by a bum is foolish Ohio. No

He seems like an equal opportunity offender?
(06-09-2012 03:54 PM)TrainWreck Wrote:  Whites (crackers), spics, niggers, faggot, lesbians, Christians, Jews, Muslims and Atheists will be doing things my way - the scientific way - gauranteed.

I admit that I am swayed by the idea of censoring the forum in such a way that offensive slurs are automatically changed via embedded programming code. Such as changing nigger into n!gg3r, faggot into f4gg0t, et cetera. I've seen it done in other forums as a way of simply enforcing good posting etiquette while not banning any speech. Another reason is keeping search queries clean from certain results leading back to the site. For instance I wouldn't want the dogpile.com search of "niggers+faggots+atheists" to bring a up a result of a random TTA post and delude a drive by person with the impression that a member like TrainWreck is part of the norm of this site. This seems like reasonable and fair excuses to not let offensive words be a part of the sum total of text that comprise this site and reputation of us as a community.

I find it quite interesting when I run across someone who still uses racial slurs as part of their vocabulary. As an over the road truck driver, I always thought of my CB radio as the original 'Chat Room' and before cell phones it was quite common to run with another driver and chat for hours about anything and everything. Over the years I have encountered a small few who got comfortable enough to speak candidly about opinions they have using derogatory racial epithets. My reaction was to study them. Where they came from, what political ideology they are, how familiar were they with whom they spoke about and why they thought that way? At some point in the polite discussions I reveal that I am in an interracial marriage and do my best to enhance their thought process by some means of deductive reasoning. I managed to get a few apologies and a couple of disheartened grunts too but I like most the benefit of what I gained from finding out what made them tick.

Case in point- TrainWreck, what a fitting handle. I've found him all over the web as "SidewalkCynic" and he is indeed that.
[Image: 2571028763_83fc002e27_z.jpg]
Brangelina's biggest fan by hbomb1947 the turnstile-jumper, on Flickr. See the irony of who he is begging from?

His real name is Ronald J. Martin and perhaps he fancies himself as an aspiring street comedian accepting donations as pay or maybe he really is just a bum? Aside from posting offensive and arrogant remarks in here and in other online communities, Mr Martin seems hell bent for leather on replacing the Dewey decimal system with his own and is convinced that it will change the world. I find this quite revealing to his mental health. Shocking

He is a pathetic small man with an even smaller mind. It's also my experience that panhandlers seek to offend anyone who refuse to acquiesce to demands of their money. I choose to never be offended by such persons and always tell them good luck and God bless as I leave them empty handed. I suspect most of these individuals make more than I do and revel in the fact that they are somehow cheating the system. The system of the working dolts rewarding a genius of slackness.

So Ohio, it's your choice to allow yourself to be offended by this guy. Sticks and stones and all that jazz y'kno?

Nuff time wasted on this guy- Drinking Beverage
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09-09-2012, 02:48 PM
RE: Racism on this forum
Trainwreck has to be taken for what he is, a trainwreck. So not worth paying any attention to and certainly not worth being offended by, consider the source. He shows up now and then, says something stupid and leaves again, I think it's his entertainment.

Don't leave because of that...not worth it. He isn't even someone you could argue or reason with.

I'm not anti-social. I'm pro-solitude. Sleepy
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09-09-2012, 02:49 PM (This post was last modified: 09-09-2012 03:33 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: Racism on this forum
(09-09-2012 02:21 PM)Grassy Knoll Wrote:  Muffs, where do you think you're going? You can't leave until we finish our Risk game! Hopefully we never finish it of course Angel

I'm assuming the OP was referring to this post made by TrainWreck. To be offended by a bum is foolish Ohio. No

He seems like an equal opportunity offender?
(06-09-2012 03:54 PM)TrainWreck Wrote:  Whites (crackers), spics, niggers, faggot, lesbians, Christians, Jews, Muslims and Atheists will be doing things my way - the scientific way - gauranteed.

I admit that I am swayed by the idea of censoring the forum in such a way that offensive slurs are automatically changed via embedded programming code. Such as changing nigger into n!gg3r, faggot into f4gg0t, et cetera. I've seen it done in other forums as a way of simply enforcing good posting etiquette while not banning any speech. Another reason is keeping search queries clean from certain results leading back to the site. For instance I wouldn't want the dogpile.com search of "niggers+faggots+atheists" to bring a up a result of a random TTA post and delude a drive by person with the impression that a member like TrainWreck is part of the norm of this site. This seems like reasonable and fair excuses to not let offensive words be a part of the sum total of text that comprise this site and reputation of us as a community.

I find it quite interesting when I run across someone who still uses racial slurs as part of their vocabulary. As an over the road truck driver, I always thought of my CB radio as the original 'Chat Room' and before cell phones it was quite common to run with another driver and chat for hours about anything and everything. Over the years I have encountered a small few who got comfortable enough to speak candidly about opinions they have using derogatory racial epithets. My reaction was to study them. Where they came from, what political ideology they are, how familiar were they with whom they spoke about and why they thought that way? At some point in the polite discussions I reveal that I am in an interracial marriage and do my best to enhance their thought process by some means of deductive reasoning. I managed to get a few apologies and a couple of disheartened grunts too but I like most the benefit of what I gained from finding out what made them tick.

Case in point- TrainWreck, what a fitting handle. I've found him all over the web as "SidewalkCynic" and he is indeed that.
[Image: 2571028763_83fc002e27_z.jpg]
Brangelina's biggest fan by hbomb1947 the turnstile-jumper, on Flickr. See the irony of who he is begging from?

His real name is Ronald J. Martin and perhaps he fancies himself as an aspiring street comedian accepting donations as pay or maybe he really is just a bum? Aside from posting offensive and arrogant remarks in here and in other online communities, Mr Martin seems hell bent for leather on replacing the Dewey decimal system with his own and is convinced that it will change the world. I find this quite revealing to his mental health. Shocking

He is a pathetic small man with an even smaller mind. It's also my experience that panhandlers seek to offend anyone who refuse to acquiesce to demands of their money. I choose to never be offended by such persons and always tell them good luck and God bless as I leave them empty handed. I suspect most of these individuals make more than I do and revel in the fact that they are somehow cheating the system. The system of the working dolts rewarding a genius of slackness.

So Ohio, it's your choice to allow yourself to be offended by this guy. Sticks and stones and all that jazz y'kno?

Nuff time wasted on this guy- Drinking Beverage

That's way more information than I needed or wanted to know about the fucking TrainWreck, Grassy, but thanks. ... I guess. Wink

(09-09-2012 02:21 PM)Grassy Knoll Wrote:  So Ohio, it's your choice to allow yourself to be offended by this guy.

That's the question Ohio. Is this community's tolerance of allowing some random hobo to come and occasionally shit on the premises and then move on more than you can stomach or not? ... Girly finds TrainWreck's absurdity humorous. Not every member here feels that way.

As it was in the beginning is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.
And I will show you something different from either
Your shadow at morning striding behind you
Or your shadow at evening rising to meet you;
I will show you fear in a handful of dust.
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10-09-2012, 07:59 AM
RE: Racism on this forum
My last post on here.
It is not only TrainWreck that has used them words. I have seen Nazi for Red Tornado and tons of times anti semiotic words towards the Jews on here also. I am no Pollyanna by any stretch. But I am sick of it and to hide under the skirt of free speech is cowardice. Either this site will stand for the dignity and respect of ALL of the forum or I cant be a part of this. If at some time the rules change and this is no longer tolerated I would come back. But where it stands I wont be on here or even look at one more post anymore. I have already signed up to a new forum. They dont let racist remarks go unpunished and you can be thrown off for just that sort of thing. I made sure before I signed up. Even if I am the only one who feels this way I know in my heart I am right. I will not give ground on this matter. I like the most of you and don't hold any one person in contempt. I even forgive TrainWreck for his stupidity. I think he was raised to think that way. Old habits are very hard to break. I just don't think this should be the place for his or any other persons racism. I am very sad to leave this site and the answers i got just didn't hold water. I almost left here about a year ago. Now is the time for us to say good bye and I really do wish everyone the best in their lives. You will go on without me and I will be forgotten. I only hope at least one time I made you stop and think.

History, I believe, furnishes no example of a priest-ridden people maintaining a
free civil government. This marks the lowest grade of ignorance, of which their
political as well as religious leaders will always avail themselves for their
own purpose. ~ Thomas Jefferson
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10-09-2012, 08:07 AM
RE: Racism on this forum
You probably wont read this post but good luck bro.

Shame to see you go but if you feel that way then you have to stick to your guns.

All the best.

For no matter how much I use these symbols, to describe symptoms of my existence.
You are your own emphasis.
So I say nothing.

-Bemore.
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