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12-02-2014, 03:46 PM (This post was last modified: 12-02-2014 04:19 PM by Raptor Jesus.)
Racist Disney Character?
I didn't really know where to post this. It's not "casual", however it's also not science, or politics, or what ever else either.

If you do not want to read the whole thing, just skip down to the picture below and vote on whether it's racist or not. The rest of what is written is just the story of why I posted this question.

I am having a dispute with someone about racist depictions. In particular the discussion was about racism in old Disney cartoons. She argued that people have been over sensitive about some of the depictions, such as the stereotypically black crows in Dumbo.

I gave her multiple examples, but she stuck to the premise that racism would simply disappeared if people refused to keep bringing it up. That it seems to her to be, the pointing out of things as racist that actually keeps the depictions or idea of them as being racist around. In other words, if no one pointed to the crows in Dumbo, and said how racist they were then no one would think of them as racist, and then there would be no problem.

(The main reason I use the Dumbo crows here as an example, is mainly because they are probably the best known, and at least, for her sake, more ambiguously racist compared to what I pointed out to her later.)

I argued that in many of these cases they are racist caricatures, and the racism is in the stereotypical racist depiction of the caricatures itself of the ethnic group being used. She claimed what I was saying was that we need to white wash out all ethnicities to avoid racism. If any character appears to be black (or any other ethnicity other than white) then it is claimed as racist. I said no, it's the racist caricaturization that’s the problem, not the ethnicity. She couldn’t make a distinction between making a cartoon in which it is clear the character’s intended ethnicity (other than white), versus a stereotypical caricature.

So I showed her a few old Disney cartoon characters to illustrate my point, for which she did not see anything inherently offensive. What really shocked me was the following one. She looked at it and claims she did not see, in her mind, anything the least bit offensive about it. It’s just a black (centaur) character, and there is nothing wrong. It would be the same if they made the character white, but just because it’s a black character it’s considered racist. I explained the racial stereotyping, and she claims she does not see it. Just a black character.

Your thoughts?
The question…racist, or not, or am I just reading racism into it where it does not exist?

[P.S., This is from Disney's 1940 film Fantasia, in case you were wondering.]
[Image: 199524537_o.jpg]

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12-02-2014, 04:04 PM
RE: Is This Racist?
(12-02-2014 03:46 PM)Raptor Jesus Wrote:  I didn't really know where to post this. It's not "casual", however it's also not science, or politics, or what have you either.

If you do not want to read the whole thing, just skip down to the picture below and vote on whether it's racist or not. The rest of what is written is just the story of why I posted this question.

I am having a dispute with someone about racist depictions. In particular the discussion was about racism in old Disney cartoons. She argued that people have been over sensitive about some of the depictions, such as the stereotypically black crows in Dumbo.

I gave her multiple examples, but she stuck to the premise that racism would simply disappeared if people refused to keep bringing it up. That it seems to her to be, the pointing out of things as racist that actually keeps the depictions or idea of them as being racist around. In other words, if no one pointed to the crows in Dumbo, and said how racist they were then no one would think of them as racist, and then there would be no problem.

(The main reason I use the Dumbo crows here as an example, is mainly because they are probably the best known, and at least, for her sake, more ambiguously racist compared to what I pointed out to her later.)

I argued that in many of these cases they are racist caricatures, and the racism is in the stereotypical racist depiction of the caricatures itself of the ethnic group being used. She claimed what I was saying was that we need to white wash out all ethnicities to avoid racism. If any character appears to be black (or any other ethnicity other than white) then it is claimed as racist. I said no, it's the racist caricaturization that’s the problem, not the ethnicity. She couldn’t make a distinction between making a cartoon in which it is clear the character’s intended ethnicity (other than white), versus a stereotypical caricature.

So I showed her a few old Disney cartoon characters to illustrate my point, for which she did not see anything inherently offensive. What really shocked me was the following one. She looked at it and claims she did not see, in her mind, anything the least bit offensive about it. It’s just a black (centaur) character, and there is nothing wrong. It would be the same if they made the character white, but just because it’s a black character it’s considered racist. I explained the racial stereotyping, and she claims she does not see it. Just a black character.

Your thoughts?
The question…racist, or not, or am I just reading racism into it where it does not exist?

[P.S., This is from Disney's 1940 film Fantasia, in case you were wondering.]
[Image: 199524537_o.jpg]

Your friend is a racist. If she sees nothing wrong with old Disney portrayals of black people she has a problem with reality.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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12-02-2014, 04:10 PM
RE: Is This Disney Character Racist?
In a vacuum, no, it's not. There are two centaurs and they happen to look different.

Except of course for the part where Fantasia was not created in a vacuum, and that particular bit is literally an idealised caricature of hideously racist contemporary culture... Racist as fuck.

So there's that.

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12-02-2014, 04:22 PM
RE: Is This Disney Character Racist?
(12-02-2014 03:46 PM)Raptor Jesus Wrote:  I didn't really know where to post this. It's not "casual", however it's also not science, or politics, or what ever else either.

If you do not want to read the whole thing, just skip down to the picture below and vote on whether it's racist or not. The rest of what is written is just the story of why I posted this question.

I am having a dispute with someone about racist depictions. In particular the discussion was about racism in old Disney cartoons. She argued that people have been over sensitive about some of the depictions, such as the stereotypically black crows in Dumbo.

I gave her multiple examples, but she stuck to the premise that racism would simply disappeared if people refused to keep bringing it up. That it seems to her to be, the pointing out of things as racist that actually keeps the depictions or idea of them as being racist around. In other words, if no one pointed to the crows in Dumbo, and said how racist they were then no one would think of them as racist, and then there would be no problem.

(The main reason I use the Dumbo crows here as an example, is mainly because they are probably the best known, and at least, for her sake, more ambiguously racist compared to what I pointed out to her later.)

I argued that in many of these cases they are racist caricatures, and the racism is in the stereotypical racist depiction of the caricatures itself of the ethnic group being used. She claimed what I was saying was that we need to white wash out all ethnicities to avoid racism. If any character appears to be black (or any other ethnicity other than white) then it is claimed as racist. I said no, it's the racist caricaturization that’s the problem, not the ethnicity. She couldn’t make a distinction between making a cartoon in which it is clear the character’s intended ethnicity (other than white), versus a stereotypical caricature.

So I showed her a few old Disney cartoon characters to illustrate my point, for which she did not see anything inherently offensive. What really shocked me was the following one. She looked at it and claims she did not see, in her mind, anything the least bit offensive about it. It’s just a black (centaur) character, and there is nothing wrong. It would be the same if they made the character white, but just because it’s a black character it’s considered racist. I explained the racial stereotyping, and she claims she does not see it. Just a black character.

Your thoughts?
The question…racist, or not, or am I just reading racism into it where it does not exist?

[P.S., This is from Disney's 1940 film Fantasia, in case you were wondering.]
[Image: 199524537_o.jpg]

Yeeeaaah... that's clearly rascist. Anyone who can't see that probably needs some help taking the baby steps... or glasses...
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12-02-2014, 05:15 PM
RE: Racist Disney Character?
What did that homophic, racist rich duck dude say recently, "I never, with my eyes, saw the mistreatment of any black person. Not once. Where we lived was all farmers. The blacks worked for the farmers. I hoed cotton with them. I’m with the blacks, because we’re white trash. We’re going across the field.... They’re singing and happy. I never heard one of them, one black person, say, ‘I tell you what: These doggone white people’—not a word!... Pre-entitlement, pre-welfare, you say: Were they happy? They were godly; they were happy; no one was singing the blues."

Yeah, he ain't racist. Dodgy




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12-02-2014, 05:30 PM
RE: Racist Disney Character?
I took a course once many years about racism in films. While we discussed a lot how African-Americans were often portrayed they also spent lots of time on Chinese and Japanese peoples were also portrayed.

It's kinda sad.

I didn't actually read the post...but I looked at rhe picture. Yeah..it's totally racist.


God is a concept by which we measure our pain -- John Lennon

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12-02-2014, 05:45 PM
RE: Racist Disney Character?
Your friend reminds me of a person I met when I was 20. I called him out for being racist. He explained to me (I later heard it in a movie, and I suppose he decided to adopt the logic) "I ain't racist. It's not their fault. A nigger can't help being a nigger, any more than a dog can help being a dog."

If he ever said it again, he probably said it with a lisp. I knocked out four of his teeth, and spent six weeks behind bars for it. Never slept better.

So many cats, so few good recipes.
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12-02-2014, 05:52 PM
RE: Racist Disney Character?
(12-02-2014 05:45 PM)Stark Raving Wrote:  Your friend reminds me of a person I met when I was 20. I called him out for being racist. He explained to me (I later heard it in a movie, and I suppose he decided to adopt the logic) "I ain't racist. It's not their fault. A nigger can't help being a nigger, any more than a dog can help being a dog."

If he ever said it again, he probably said it with a lisp. I knocked out four of his teeth, and spent six weeks behind bars for it. Never slept better.

I normally don't like violence but I love that. How can people be that stupid....

Oh wait my father and his whole side of the family was. Undecided


God is a concept by which we measure our pain -- John Lennon

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12-02-2014, 05:54 PM
RE: Racist Disney Character?
I don't remember the crows from Dumbo. That movie gave me nightmares. I don't know why but that was one of the scariest movies of my childhood.

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12-02-2014, 06:04 PM
RE: Racist Disney Character?
(12-02-2014 05:30 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  I took a course once many years about racism in films. While we discussed a lot how African-Americans were often portrayed they also spent lots of time on Chinese and Japanese peoples were also portrayed.
...

It's funny you mentioned that. There are also these two Disney characters. I also showed her them, and she dismissed it as just being Chinese characters, and being overly sensitive. I said, maybe you can say that one about the one on the right, possibly, but the one on the left is a blantant racist Chinese caricature.

She claims she doesn't see it.

[Image: chipracist1.jpg]

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