Racist or not?
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17-10-2013, 05:18 AM
RE: Racist or not?
(17-10-2013 04:04 AM)BlackMason Wrote:  I think it is racist. Any time one sees colour, that is racism or has the potential to be racism. When the reason is linked to a person's complexion (which is meaningless)...that's simply racist.

So it's racist if linked to their skin color, but not their hair color? Not their size/shape? That is to say, you're saying preference for one visual component of a person is racist, but not other visual aspects?

Certainly, if someone says "I don't date black people," that person could very well be racist. I'm just saying it's not necessarily so, for the same reason I could say I don't typically date gingers, but I legitimately have nothing against gingers.
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17-10-2013, 05:33 AM
RE: Racist or not?
(17-10-2013 05:18 AM)amyb Wrote:  
(17-10-2013 04:04 AM)BlackMason Wrote:  I think it is racist. Any time one sees colour, that is racism or has the potential to be racism. When the reason is linked to a person's complexion (which is meaningless)...that's simply racist.

So it's racist if linked to their skin color, but not their hair color? Not their size/shape? That is to say, you're saying preference for one visual component of a person is racist, but not other visual aspects?

Certainly, if someone says "I don't date black people," that person could very well be racist. I'm just saying it's not necessarily so, for the same reason I could say I don't typically date gingers, but I legitimately have nothing against gingers.

Please refer to my posts on page 3. I think I started expressing myself a little clearer after reading other peoples' comments.

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17-10-2013, 05:46 AM
RE: Racist or not?
(17-10-2013 05:18 AM)amyb Wrote:  
(17-10-2013 04:04 AM)BlackMason Wrote:  I think it is racist. Any time one sees colour, that is racism or has the potential to be racism. When the reason is linked to a person's complexion (which is meaningless)...that's simply racist.

So it's racist if linked to their skin color, but not their hair color? Not their size/shape? That is to say, you're saying preference for one visual component of a person is racist, but not other visual aspects?

Certainly, if someone says "I don't date black people," that person could very well be racist. I'm just saying it's not necessarily so, for the same reason I could say I don't typically date gingers, but I legitimately have nothing against gingers.
It actually is so though, Amy.

If a person doesn't date someone of another race, there is a reason... it's because that person doesn't find the person of another race attractive, period. No amount of explaination will convince the person of "other race" otherwise.

There is not much difference between being anti-"whatever race", and being not willing to date them.
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17-10-2013, 05:49 AM
RE: Racist or not?
(17-10-2013 05:03 AM)Colourcraze Wrote:  Like I said before in this thread, an opinion like "I'm not attracted to black people" can stem from racism, but isn't necessarily racist in and of itself.

Agreed. So we would have to know the context in which the person made their comment in order for us to make a comprehensive analysis. We don't have such information in this thread. So instead of giving the standard fence sitting reply I tried to give the conversation more purpose. Different angles from which we can view the subject.

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17-10-2013, 05:57 AM
RE: Racist or not?
(17-10-2013 05:33 AM)BlackMason Wrote:  
(17-10-2013 05:18 AM)amyb Wrote:  So it's racist if linked to their skin color, but not their hair color? Not their size/shape? That is to say, you're saying preference for one visual component of a person is racist, but not other visual aspects?

Certainly, if someone says "I don't date black people," that person could very well be racist. I'm just saying it's not necessarily so, for the same reason I could say I don't typically date gingers, but I legitimately have nothing against gingers. But I won't say "I would never date a ginger" for the same reasons I wouldn't say "I would never date a black person," because you never know, one might come along and change my mind (and there have been both gingers and black people I've found attractive, just haven't dated either). But I do think it's possible to think a certain complexion is, in general, more attractive than others.

Please refer to my posts on page 3. I think I started expressing myself a little clearer after reading other peoples' comments.
Ok, I admit to not reading all of page 3 before...

But I still am not sure that I agree that skin color is higher on the hierarchy than hair color. If anything, it's more visible, therefore more likely to have preferences associated with it.

I would agree that it's questionable to say "I would never date a black person!" and, personally, I would never say that. However, I think it's problematic to say
Quote:Any time one sees colour...
because it's equating all "seeing color" with racism, and I don't think that's necessarily the case. I think it's complicated, because it's difficult to discern if a person is seeing just a color (kind of like the hair color example), or being influenced by generalizations/stereotypes associated with people of a certain "race."

It makes me think of David Bowie. I believe he was quoted about how he digs black chicks all through the years, then eventually went on to marry the model Iman. Is he racist for preferring non-white women? Is he racist against white (and Asian, etc) women? Is this an example of fetishizing a particular complexion, or simply a "preference?" What do you have to say about people with a marked preference for people with a different skin color, or terms like "jungle fever"? They're "seeing color," too.
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17-10-2013, 06:31 AM
RE: Racist or not?
(17-10-2013 04:04 AM)BlackMason Wrote:  I think it is racist. Any time one sees colour, that is racism or has the potential to be racism. When the reason is linked to a person's complexion (which is meaningless)...that's simply racist. It is racism when you start applying blanket statements like that. How about evaluating each person on their own merits whether they be black or white or yellow, and refrain from idiotic statements that make you look like an ass. When you have preconceived notions about a group of people...how is that NOT racist? I would've loved to see the OP explain why they believe that it is not racist. I thought atheists were critical thinkers. Guess you learn something new everydayUndecided.

I mostly agree with you. From one sentence I would not conclude that the person is racist, but I would have my suspicions.

First of all, whenever a person starts with a sentence "I am not a racist, but ..."
there is a good chance that they are just that.

Also, why does a person say that they would not date black people at all. Skin color is just one of the many attributes of a person. Besides, some "black people"
are light-skinned and some white people are "dark skinned". When a person
makes a statement that they do not date black people, there is probably some
judgment on the character of a black person behind it.
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17-10-2013, 06:43 AM
RE: Racist or not?
(17-10-2013 05:57 AM)amyb Wrote:  Ok, I admit to not reading all of page 3 before...

But I still am not sure that I agree that skin color is higher on the hierarchy than hair color. If anything, it's more visible, therefore more likely to have preferences associated with it.

I would agree that it's questionable to say "I would never date a black person!" and, personally, I would never say that.

Let me begin by being a little clearer with my terms. In all of my posts colour/race = ethnicity. By comparison hair colour is a trivial thing. Ethnicity is not. For example you could like blondes only. I have no problem with this because you can meet blondes from all races. Natural or artificial. But when one says I don't like whites....they have excluded even the ones that have the characteristics that they may favour (blondes). It is the mass elimination of a group of people that is wrong. Just like how we (atheists from christianity) hate Yahweh for flooding the WHOLE world. Are you telling me that no one other than Noah's crew was good?

(17-10-2013 05:57 AM)amyb Wrote:  However, I think it's problematic to say

Quote:Any time one sees colour...

because it's equating all "seeing color" with racism, and I don't think that's necessarily the case. I think it's complicated, because it's difficult to discern if a person is seeing just a color (kind of like the hair color example), or being influenced by generalizations/stereotypes associated with people of a certain "race."

I hope I've cleared up that with the aforementioned.

(17-10-2013 05:57 AM)amyb Wrote:  It makes me think of David Bowie. I believe he was quoted about how he digs black chicks all through the years, then eventually went on to marry the model Iman. Is he racist for preferring non-white women? Is he racist against white (and Asian, etc) women? Is this an example of fetishizing a particular complexion, or simply a "preference?" What do you have to say about people with a marked preference for people with a different skin color, or terms like "jungle fever"? They're "seeing color," too.

No he is not racist. He has not categorically eliminated an entire group of people. He said he digs a particular group implying they are favoured. The other unfortunate women are not precluded altogether.

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17-10-2013, 06:45 AM (This post was last modified: 17-10-2013 06:50 AM by amyb.)
RE: Racist or not?
Ok, I can kind of agree with that. I was thinking more along the lines of a white person explaining why, for example, they have never dated any black people. If they said, "I will never date any black people," I can see how that could be interpreted as racist, yes.

But I think that even extends to other things. For example, I could understand if a person said, "I think blue eyes are pretty," but it would sound a bit weird to say "I would never even consider dating a person who does not have blue eyes."

Quote: In all of my posts colour/race = ethnicity.
Ah, I see we are not using the same terms, then. I am talking about skin color, only. Ethnicity doesn't necessarily have anything to do with skin color, and "race" isn't a scientific concept,so I am going with the visual, the complexion of the person.

Quote:No he is not racist. He has not categorically eliminated an entire group of people. He said he digs a particular group implying they are favoured. The other unfortunate women are not precluded altogether.
I thought you said "seeing color", making any judgment based on color, is racist? But hasn't excluded white women and asian women? If a white woman says "I only dig white men," doesn't that imply she doesn't dig nonwhites?
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17-10-2013, 06:47 AM
RE: Racist or not?
Black_squirrel, you speak the truth.

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17-10-2013, 06:57 AM (This post was last modified: 17-10-2013 07:00 AM by BlackMason.)
RE: Racist or not?
(17-10-2013 06:45 AM)amyb Wrote:  
Quote:No he is not racist. He has not categorically eliminated an entire group of people. He said he digs a particular group implying they are favoured. The other unfortunate women are not precluded altogether.
I thought you said "seeing color", making any judgment based on color, is racist? But hasn't excluded white women and asian women? If a white woman says "I only dig white men," doesn't that imply she doesn't dig nonwhites?

That is a categorical statement because of the ONLY. Saying I dig black chicks lacks the impetus of saying I ONLY dig black chicks. The "ONLY" precludes all not in the mentioned group. Am I getting anywhere with this?

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