Raised as an atheist, went all the way, back on the market-place again
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10-03-2017, 01:27 AM (This post was last modified: 10-03-2017 02:10 AM by Szuchow.)
RE: Raised as an atheist, went all the way, back on the market-place again
(09-03-2017 09:16 PM)Fireball Wrote:  
(09-03-2017 05:56 PM)Billanja Wrote:  "Even in USA people can understand capitalism differently I guess."

There is nothing to be missunderstood about capitalism, Saz. Once you know what it's all about, you know it. It can not be un-known.

Big Grin

How has "Szuchow" become "Saz"?

Weak attempt at throwing insults would be my guess. Or simple inability to read nick.

There is also a story in which Joseph Goebbels called Vice President of the Berlin police Bernhard Weiss "Isidore" to insult/piss him of. She's not Goebbels nor I'm Weiss but tactics looks same.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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10-03-2017, 01:37 AM (This post was last modified: 10-03-2017 01:59 AM by Szuchow.)
RE: Raised as an atheist, went all the way, back on the market-place again
(09-03-2017 06:38 PM)Dr H Wrote:  
(09-03-2017 05:37 PM)Szuchow Wrote:  Can have good sales pitch? But can't just be good? Even for a while?

Maybe. In the same sense that religion may have been good for humanity for a little while, deep in our evolutionary past. But I think capitalism's long since worn out its usefulness here in the US, at any rate. It is a fundamental source of many of our current problems.

I would say that unregulated capitalism can be seen as source of some of USA problems.

Quote:Even in USA people can understand capitalism differently I guess.
Oh, for sure. The rich capitalists here love it. Laugh out load

What countries do you think capitalism has been especially good for?
[/quote]

It was good for core countries if we go with Wallerstein theory.

Now it seems to work quite well for Germany from what little I know. Supposedly there is also Nordic model which combines capitalism with welfare state with pretty good results.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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10-03-2017, 01:48 AM
RE: Raised as an atheist, went all the way, back on the market-place again
(09-03-2017 07:30 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(09-03-2017 05:47 PM)Billanja Wrote:  No, Saz. But care to explain why you, personally, think capitalism is beneficial for humanity as such? Please elaborate.

I think neither unadulterated capitalism nor communism can work for the same reasons - neither can stand in the face of greed. It's been clear much longer than Ananias and Sapphira and the commie bastard apostles that communism requires a social contract that many will breach to their own advantage. They can't help themselves. I think capitalism fails for the same reason. It is its own self-centered sort of social contract which which rewards assholes resulting in vast disparities of wealth. The capitalists see the commies as being "gimme gimme gimme" freeloaders while the pinkos see the Helmsleys and Madoffs and Trumps as "gimme more waaahhh me want more" insatiable assholes.

There was no serious attempt at making communism reality*, or maybe there was one (Lenin and co) but it buckled before the reality and since then communism was nothing more than shinning star which should be followed, but not reached soon. Neither Stalin, nor Khrushchev were interested in achieving such, and Brezhnev started to talk about really existing socialism.

As for uncontrolled capitalism - I'm not interested in utopia, nor I think that market will solve everything. But it can be made to work with welfare state if Nordic countries are evidence so I see no problem here.

Quote:I think capitalism works when the right people get rich. The ones who actually realize there's no way they can spend all this on hookers and blow even if they invite all their friends, don't see the point of conspicuous consumption, and look to do something useful just because they're bored. Hey Bill wanna help me go to Mars? Sure, if you help me vaccinate the planet. What about Mark, what's he up to? Last I heard he was doing a Travels with Charlie thing roadtripping around saving babies and puppies. Guess Warren's too old to do the trip. Yeah, he did give me $37B though to feed the planet, I'm thinking peanut butter and bugs. If these otherwise decent people, who through no fault of their own and much to their surprise became mega-capitalists, got into politics to counterbalance the gimme more more more assholes then I think capitalism could be used beneficially by directing resources to matters of more pressing concern than bathroom birth certificate monitors and the current net worth of the Koch brothers. I think things are starting to look bad enough that a number of them are thinking about taking the plunge. A capitalistic oligarchy would work well if the oligarchs are philosopher kings instead of selfish to the point of indifference to the plight of others assholes.

I would point to Germany and say that it seems to work pretty good there. It isn't perfect but beyond utopias nothing is.


*Depend how one looks on Mao and Khmers Rogue I guess.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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10-03-2017, 11:37 AM
RE: Raised as an atheist, went all the way, back on the market-place again
(09-03-2017 07:30 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  A capitalistic oligarchy would work well if the oligarchs are philosopher kings instead of selfish to the point of indifference to the plight of others assholes.

Why and what for would "philosopher kings" have an interest in becoming oligarchs? And who would qualify as a "philosopher king"? And by what means could it be ensured they don't become "selfish assholes" after having all the power an oligarch has?
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10-03-2017, 11:41 AM
RE: Raised as an atheist, went all the way, back on the market-place again
(09-03-2017 09:16 PM)Fireball Wrote:  How has "Szuchow" become "Saz"?

That's my nick-name for him. It's an acronym. But don't ask me what it means. It's too intimate to admit.
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10-03-2017, 11:49 AM
RE: Raised as an atheist, went all the way, back on the market-place again
(09-03-2017 08:19 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  Nah, I can understand where they're coming from. If they drop their hero worship they will be admitting to themselves that it is unlikely they will ever be able to change their unfortunate circumstances. Same reason they hold onto God.

I still don't understand why and what for one needs to have millions and millions and lots of property and things like jachts and castles and private islands, etc. What is it they really want? Do you think those oligarchs/billionares/filthy-rich people are happy, content and relaxed? And if so, why do they need all that stuff? And if that, all that stuff, makes them happy, content and relaxed, what will happen to their happiness if they loose it? Will they still be content and relaxed, if they are anyway?

Know what I mean?

"Can't buy me love..." (The Beatles)
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10-03-2017, 11:55 AM
RE: Raised as an atheist, went all the way, back on the market-place again
(10-03-2017 01:27 AM)Szuchow Wrote:  Weak attempt at throwing insults would be my guess. Or simple inability to read nick.

There is also a story in which Joseph Goebbels called Vice President of the Berlin police Bernhard Weiss "Isidore" to insult/piss him of. She's not Goebbels nor I'm Weiss but tactics looks same.

Wow! Someone assocciates Goebbels when trying to figure out why I call him Saz. Interesting, from a freudian standpoint. Really interesting.


...*rubbs chin and looks up to the ceiling*...
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10-03-2017, 12:03 PM
RE: Raised as an atheist, went all the way, back on the market-place again
(10-03-2017 01:37 AM)Szuchow Wrote:  Now it seems to work quite well for Germany from what little I know. Supposedly there is also Nordic model which combines capitalism with welfare state with pretty good results.

You do know that I'm born and raised in Germany? That I also live in Germany and have a german passport? That my father was an old-school social democrat and so am I? And that I was working for an internationally known german news-magazin? And that I studied economics? That I'm from a lower middle-class background?

What do you wanna know about Germany? Just ask.

Angel
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10-03-2017, 12:06 PM
RE: Raised as an atheist, went all the way, back on the market-place again
(09-03-2017 09:16 PM)Fireball Wrote:  
(09-03-2017 05:56 PM)Billanja Wrote:  There is nothing to be missunderstood about capitalism, Saz.

How has "Szuchow" become "Saz"?

It's his pet name for him, remember this is not the first time they've met. BillyJane's been here before.

#sigh
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10-03-2017, 12:17 PM
RE: Raised as an atheist, went all the way, back on the market-place again
(10-03-2017 12:06 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  It's his pet name for him, remember this is not the first time they've met. BillyJane's been here before.

Nah...wrong on so many levels.

1.) I'm a woman, according to what my passport says. And also according to how I look.

2.) Saz is my nickname for him and it is, like I said, an acronym.

3.) I haven't been here before.

4.) I don't consider Saz as my pet. But he's my spirit-animal.

Cool
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