Raised as an atheist, went all the way, back on the market-place again
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21-03-2017, 01:25 AM
RE: Raised as an atheist, went all the way, back on the market-place again
(20-03-2017 07:56 PM)Dr H Wrote:  Nationalism has always been popular among a certain segment of the American public. It's so pervasive that a lot of people who wouldn't describe themselves as "nationalists" are still affected by it.

It's possible. Still they reject Trump brand of nationalism.

Quote:That surprises me, a little. You agree that it's significant that maybe half of American voters don't like Trump, but you don't agree that they ought to organize and try do to something more effective about it than bitch?

Or have I misread your comment?

It's this sentence that I disagree with: So my point is, it's not especially significant that a lot of voters don't happen to like Trump; that's pretty much the case after every presidential election.

It would be nice if people would do more to oppose him, but I don't see current state of affairs as something insignificant.

Quote:Well, "victory" is an optimistic way to see it. It's like the "victory" of not waving a flag on July 4th, when everyone else is. Doesn't really have much impact.

It's more like a victory of not waving said flag when half of the people on parade want beat the shit out of you for doing that yet you don't succumb to this tribal nonsense.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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21-03-2017, 06:21 PM
RE: Raised as an atheist, went all the way, back on the market-place again
(21-03-2017 01:25 AM)Szuchow Wrote:  It's possible. Still they reject Trump brand of nationalism.
US nationalism is a very weird thing.

We have people in this country -- a lot of them -- who will insist on certain trappings of what they consider "patriotism", as if they believed that they came down directly from the mouths of the Founding Fathers. Yet most of them are post Civil War affectations, and some are less than a generation or two old. The wording of the Pledge of Allegiance -- the Pledge itself, for that matter; the Flag Code; the phrase "God bless America"...
Hell a lot of Americans who view the Founding Fathers as akin to saints don't even know the names of most of them. People who never read it will flaunt the Constitution, and fling quotes from the Declaration of Independence as if they were part of the Constitution (and vice-versa).

Trump didn't create this weird obsession, but he exploits it to the nth-degree.



Quote:It's this sentence that I disagree with: So my point is, it's not especially significant that a lot of voters don't happen to like Trump; that's pretty much the case after every presidential election.

It would be nice if people would do more to oppose him, but I don't see current state of affairs as something insignificant.
OK, that makes more sense. Thanks for clearing that up.

Quote:It's more like a victory of not waving said flag when half of the people on parade want beat the shit out of you for doing that yet you don't succumb to this tribal nonsense.
Ah, things aren't that bad yet. Yeah, there are some places where that might happen, under some circumstances. But not most. As I noted in an earlier post, Americans are pretty accustomed to seeing perpetual protests. That's why I call random protests "insignificant" they don't change anything, and then barely even get noticed. They've become a regular part of the landscape.

If every morning you see a hundred crows on your lawn, you're probably not going to pay much attention if tomorrow there are 12 more among them.

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Dr H

"So, I became an anarchist, and all I got was this lousy T-shirt."
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22-03-2017, 03:11 AM
RE: Raised as an atheist, went all the way, back on the market-place again
(21-03-2017 06:21 PM)Dr H Wrote:  US nationalism is a very weird thing.

We have people in this country -- a lot of them -- who will insist on certain trappings of what they consider "patriotism", as if they believed that they came down directly from the mouths of the Founding Fathers. Yet most of them are post Civil War affectations, and some are less than a generation or two old. The wording of the Pledge of Allegiance -- the Pledge itself, for that matter; the Flag Code; the phrase "God bless America"...
Hell a lot of Americans who view the Founding Fathers as akin to saints don't even know the names of most of them. People who never read it will flaunt the Constitution, and fling quotes from the Declaration of Independence as if they were part of the Constitution (and vice-versa).

Trump didn't create this weird obsession, but he exploits it to the nth-degree.

So as evidenced by votes not everyone agrees with a way in which he exploits said nationalism.


Quote:Ah, things aren't that bad yet. Yeah, there are some places where that might happen, under some circumstances. But not most. As I noted in an earlier post, Americans are pretty accustomed to seeing perpetual protests. That's why I call random protests "insignificant" they don't change anything, and then barely even get noticed. They've become a regular part of the landscape.

If every morning you see a hundred crows on your lawn, you're probably not going to pay much attention if tomorrow there are 12 more among them.

I see protest differently as two big ones one recent and second recentlish (ACTA and abortion ban) made gov back of. It's possible that my experience colors my vision of political landscape.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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24-03-2017, 04:31 PM
RE: Raised as an atheist, went all the way, back on the market-place again
(22-03-2017 03:11 AM)Szuchow Wrote:  So as evidenced by votes not everyone agrees with a way in which he exploits said nationalism.
Maybe for some.

I suspect, though, that more came from the fact that a lot of people just view Trump as an obnoxious bloviating douche-bag.


Quote:I see protest differently as two big ones one recent and second recentlish (ACTA and abortion ban) made gov back of. It's possible that my experience colors my vision of political landscape.

Some of the protests are finally starting to take focus. That, IMO, is a good thing.

--
Dr H

"So, I became an anarchist, and all I got was this lousy T-shirt."
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24-03-2017, 06:55 PM
RE: Raised as an atheist, went all the way, back on the market-place again
(24-03-2017 04:31 PM)Dr H Wrote:  I suspect, though, that more came from the fact that a lot of people just view Trump as an obnoxious bloviating douche-bag.

That's possible.


Quote:Some of the protests are finally starting to take focus. That, IMO, is a good thing.


I agree.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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24-03-2017, 08:29 PM
RE: Raised as an atheist, went all the way, back on the market-place again
You two are having a difference of opinion, and are discussing it in a rational fashion (and not just here in this thread, but in others, as well). Rational discourse is so rare on the internet that I just have to address this! I salute you both! Bowing
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24-03-2017, 08:48 PM
RE: Raised as an atheist, went all the way, back on the market-place again
(24-03-2017 08:29 PM)Fireball Wrote:  You two are having a difference of opinion, and are discussing it in a rational fashion (and not just here in this thread, but in others, as well). Rational discourse is so rare on the internet that I just have to address this! I salute you both! Bowing

Thanks. But I wouldn't be so sure about rational, I see biases on both sides. Maybe even more on mine own (I'm drunk so I can be honest Wink)

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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