Raising Atheist children.
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24-10-2013, 03:52 AM
Heart Raising Atheist children.
Seen a few posts now where De converted have mentioned confusion
About their Children.And also some nasty theist fallacies.

My wife died in 2001 (weak catholic) been mostly a single dad (agnostic) since then, 2 daughters 2yr and 5yr at the time. 14 and 17 now.

In that time I just imparted my karma inspired morals, zero discipline, they feel bad when I'm upset and they stop
Fighting.
Turns out I did indirectly indoctrinate them in my attitude to religion (arguing with my theist visitors) and for that I feel a little guilty, but in comparison my daughters are both very kind and empathetic , don't see any issues with racism or gays. (Asian driver slurs a little. My fault).
All school reports have praised there politeness and empathy to others.
Compared to the several children of my theist friends they are angels.
Recently dropped my oldest off at a bus stop and she immediately rushed to help someone who had dropped a heap of papers, a few private Christian school girls were just ignoring it.

Side effects are they have very little tolerance for ghost and alien stories are a little harsh on their friends opinions of mysticism, tell me there's a scammer at the door when strangers knock.
Either have De converted all their online friends or have ended up only associated with agnostics/atheists.
Otherwise ordinary kids no different than church going friends kids.

Summary :they are at least as moral if not more (dads rose glasses) than other children. With zero Christian moral training or fear of the great sky pervert. My oldest just got into a cadetship in Aboriginal heath services because she wanted to help people who seemed to need it most.
(They lay drunk in innercity parks like hobos)

So you can understand maybe why I get mad when theists claim atheist cant have morals therefore must be immoral people.

Sorry for the length. A little self indulgent maybe .

Theism is to believe what other people claim, Atheism is to ask "why should I".
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24-10-2013, 04:20 AM
RE: Raising Atheist children.
Lucky you didn't eat them when they were still babies.

Good to see a success story.

Bowing

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24-10-2013, 04:25 AM
RE: Raising Atheist children.
(24-10-2013 04:20 AM)DLJ Wrote:  Lucky you didn't eat them when they were still babies.

Good to see a success story.

Bowing

Was only an agnostic then. Ate other peoples babies.

Theism is to believe what other people claim, Atheism is to ask "why should I".
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24-10-2013, 06:27 AM
RE: Raising Atheist children.
(24-10-2013 03:52 AM)sporehux Wrote:  Seen a few posts now where De converted have mentioned confusion
About their Children.And also some nasty theist fallacies.

My wife died in 2001 (weak catholic) been mostly a single dad (agnostic) since then, 2 daughters 2yr and 5yr at the time. 14 and 17 now.

In that time I just imparted my karma inspired morals, zero discipline, they feel bad when I'm upset and they stop
Fighting.
Turns out I did indirectly indoctrinate them in my attitude to religion (arguing with my theist visitors) and for that I feel a little guilty, but in comparison my daughters are both very kind and empathetic , don't see any issues with racism or gays. (Asian driver slurs a little. My fault).
All school reports have praised there politeness and empathy to others.
Compared to the several children of my theist friends they are angels.
Recently dropped my oldest off at a bus stop and she immediately rushed to help someone who had dropped a heap of papers, a few private Christian school girls were just ignoring it.

Side effects are they have very little tolerance for ghost and alien stories are a little harsh on their friends opinions of mysticism, tell me there's a scammer at the door when strangers knock.
Either have De converted all their online friends or have ended up only associated with agnostics/atheists.
Otherwise ordinary kids no different than church going friends kids.

Summary :they are at least as moral if not more (dads rose glasses) than other children. With zero Christian moral training or fear of the great sky pervert. My oldest just got into a cadetship in Aboriginal heath services because she wanted to help people who seemed to need it most.
(They lay drunk in innercity parks like hobos)

So you can understand maybe why I get mad when theists claim atheist cant have morals therefore must be immoral people.

Sorry for the length. A little self indulgent maybe .
Yes. Self indulgence. That is all it is. All you are trying to prove is I'm OK without God. You see these outward behaviours as a vindication that being atheistic is OK. If you are an atheist then what are you trying to improve? Who are you trying to impress? I will tell you. You are trying to impress God. Struck in my memory is a TV interview with Fred Hollows. Now Fred Hollows was the son of a pastor and he abandoned his faith and for the rest of his life devoted himself to the good works of healing the blind. Towards the end of his life the interviewer asked him a profound question. "Well Fred, when you die and you go to heaven and are at the throne of God how do you think God will view your great works?" A sneer came over Fred's face and he smirked "What do you think"?

Fred, even though he denied his faith revealed that he wanted to prove himself through good works without faith. MAJOR FAIL. God wants to see faith and good works. So if you think that you will obtain approval from God or from me because you have sweet girls then forget it. Without faith your good behaviour, good works are without merit.

On the flip side of this, Catholics also must beware. God is not a respecter of persons. If Catholics do evil, or shut up the heart of compassion which they should show to the suffering and poor, or neglect good works, even though they have faith it will be of no avail.

To be justified before God we need both. We need faith and we need works.
Do not judge yourself in comparison with other people, whether they appear to be religious or not. Compare yourself to Jesus Christ, the prophets, the patriarchs, the apostles, and the saints who are all approved by the church as individuals worthy of emulation.

You may not know any saints personally, but you have access to me who is by the grace of God a saint in making. Follow me therefore as I follow Christ and I will show you the way to find favour, approval and justification from the Great One God, Father Son and Holy Spirit.
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24-10-2013, 08:50 AM
RE: Raising Atheist children.
Oh, excubitor, good to see you again.

You might be happy to know there was a Catholic girl in my high school who managed to turn multitudes of people away from the faith by telling them she would be laughing at them from heaven when they were burning in Hell. Such a sweet girl.

Anyhoo Spore, I just recently went through this exact train of thought, trying to figure out how to raise children without faith. I'm currently going through a process of deconversion and its caused a great deal of confusion for me.

Still, its refreshing to see a success story, and my deepest apologies about the loss of your wife. Honestly, my experience with religious vs. non-religious kids has been pretty similar. My whole life, the religious girls I've known have always been judgmental and ultimately very fake. The women I have dated have all been atheists or had very loose religious upbringings that they left in adolescence, and they've been some of the kindest, most open-hearted people I have ever met.

Sounds like you're doing a great job, and I hope you can always stay strong through it. It must be tough.
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24-10-2013, 09:32 AM
RE: Raising Atheist children.
(24-10-2013 06:27 AM)excubitor Wrote:  You may not know any saints personally, but you have access to me who is by the grace of God a saint in making. Follow me therefore as I follow Christ and I will show you the way to find favour, approval and justification from the Great One God, Father Son and Holy Spirit.

To be a saint is to be dead, so I'd be concerned if someone claimed to know one personally. Are you sure you're Catholic? Also, you have failed numbers 1-3.

Only people whose existence can be verified and whose lives can be examined are possible candidates for canonization. Candidates for sainthood undergo an investigation:

1. Informative inquiries are made into the person’s life, reputation, and activities while they lived on earth
Fail. You act like a dick.
2. Proof that no one has proclaimed or is already proclaiming and honoring the person as a saint before it’s been officially declared
Fail. You're already trying to claim street cred.
3. A thorough examination of the person’s written and spoken (transcripts) works
Fail. Better start deleting your posts here. That's one hell of a paper trail.

If Jesus died for our sins, why is there still sin? If man was created from dust, why is there still dust? If Americans came from Europe, why are there still Europeans?
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24-10-2013, 01:05 PM
RE: Raising Atheist children.
(24-10-2013 03:52 AM)sporehux Wrote:  Seen a few posts now where De converted have mentioned confusion
About their Children.And also some nasty theist fallacies.

My wife died in 2001 (weak catholic) been mostly a single dad (agnostic) since then, 2 daughters 2yr and 5yr at the time. 14 and 17 now.

In that time I just imparted my karma inspired morals, zero discipline, they feel bad when I'm upset and they stop
Fighting.
Turns out I did indirectly indoctrinate them in my attitude to religion (arguing with my theist visitors) and for that I feel a little guilty, but in comparison my daughters are both very kind and empathetic , don't see any issues with racism or gays. (Asian driver slurs a little. My fault).
All school reports have praised there politeness and empathy to others.
Compared to the several children of my theist friends they are angels.
Recently dropped my oldest off at a bus stop and she immediately rushed to help someone who had dropped a heap of papers, a few private Christian school girls were just ignoring it.

Side effects are they have very little tolerance for ghost and alien stories are a little harsh on their friends opinions of mysticism, tell me there's a scammer at the door when strangers knock.
Either have De converted all their online friends or have ended up only associated with agnostics/atheists.
Otherwise ordinary kids no different than church going friends kids.

Summary :they are at least as moral if not more (dads rose glasses) than other children. With zero Christian moral training or fear of the great sky pervert. My oldest just got into a cadetship in Aboriginal heath services because she wanted to help people who seemed to need it most.
(They lay drunk in innercity parks like hobos)

So you can understand maybe why I get mad when theists claim atheist cant have morals therefore must be immoral people.

Sorry for the length. A little self indulgent maybe .
It sounds like you've done well as a dad and your kids have turned out well. Congrats! Thumbsup I don't think atheism or religion necessarily make a good or bad person, but one huge factor is parenting and that's where it sounds like you have succeeded most. Religion or lack of it can contribute, but would only be one area of influence. So, when your daughter helped pick up the papers at the bus stop while the Christian girls ignored it, I see this as because of better parenting by you than by the parents of the Christian girls.

"Religion has caused more misery to all of mankind in every stage of human history than any other single idea." --Madalyn Murray O'Hair
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24-10-2013, 01:20 PM
RE: Raising Atheist children.
(24-10-2013 06:27 AM)excubitor Wrote:  Yes. Self indulgence. That is all it is. All you are trying to prove is I'm OK without God. You see these outward behaviours as a vindication that being atheistic is OK. If you are an atheist then what are you trying to improve? Who are you trying to impress? I will tell you. You are trying to impress God. Struck in my memory is a TV interview with Fred Hollows. Now Fred Hollows was the son of a pastor and he abandoned his faith and for the rest of his life devoted himself to the good works of healing the blind. Towards the end of his life the interviewer asked him a profound question. "Well Fred, when you die and you go to heaven and are at the throne of God how do you think God will view your great works?" A sneer came over Fred's face and he smirked "What do you think"?

Fred, even though he denied his faith revealed that he wanted to prove himself through good works without faith. MAJOR FAIL. God wants to see faith and good works. So if you think that you will obtain approval from God or from me because you have sweet girls then forget it. Without faith your good behaviour, good works are without merit.

On the flip side of this, Catholics also must beware. God is not a respecter of persons. If Catholics do evil, or shut up the heart of compassion which they should show to the suffering and poor, or neglect good works, even though they have faith it will be of no avail.

To be justified before God we need both. We need faith and we need works.
Do not judge yourself in comparison with other people, whether they appear to be religious or not. Compare yourself to Jesus Christ, the prophets, the patriarchs, the apostles, and the saints who are all approved by the church as individuals worthy of emulation.

You may not know any saints personally, but you have access to me who is by the grace of God a saint in making. Follow me therefore as I follow Christ and I will show you the way to find favour, approval and justification from the Great One God, Father Son and Holy Spirit.
Let x represent the value of a good deeds done
Let q represent the value of no good deed done
Let y represent a deity
Let z represent no deity
Let a represent quality of life improved

x=1
q=0
y=1
z=0

If x+y=a, it turns into 1+1=2.
If x+z=a, it turns into 1+0=1
If q+y=a, it turns into 0+1=1
If q+z=a, it turns into 0+0=0

Does this reflect your spiritual viewpoint, Excubitor?
If you think yes, then it alllllll makes sense now to me why you think the way you do. If you don't, that doesn't stop me from taking a crack at ya. :D
Admittedly, I'm taking a math course, hence the algebraic approach.

[Image: 3d366d5c-72a0-4228-b835-f404c2970188_zps...1381867723]
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24-10-2013, 01:22 PM
RE: Raising Atheist children.
(24-10-2013 06:27 AM)excubitor Wrote:  Who are you trying to impress? I will tell you. You are trying to impress God.
Since you seem so stuck on telling others what they think and why they do things (not just in this thread, not by a long shot), I'll do the same with you. It is YOU who is trying to impress your imaginary god. Moreover, you're trying to convince yourself - not us - that your god is real. Deep down, you know a lot of what you hear in Catholicism makes absolutely no sense so, instead of facing that fact, you come here to argue the opposite in order to reinforce your preferred delusion that Catholicism is accurate and distract yourself away from facing the truth. Why? Fear. That's all. Just fear. Fear of hell. Fear of an imaginary ruthless being - yes, even you know god is ruthless; it's all right there in the Bible, but then you convince yourself he is "loving" out of the other corner of your mouth.

Because you're afraid. Afraid of burning forever in eternal torment from your "loving" god. So afraid that you'll convince yourself that sending people to eternal hell doesn't contradict "loving" because sinners "deserve" it. You know darn well that not showering an eternal being with eternal praise is NOT justification for that being to send them to an eternity of the worst imaginable torture, but you are so afraid, you'll make excuses not to admit it. And then you come here in your quivering desperation to further self-validate your fantasy world by vocalizing as much as you can that you are right. It's the "tell a lie often enough" principle, but in this case, the lie is mostly being told to yourself.

Well, good luck with that. We atheists are free from that fear and quite content with it. I'm enjoying my life - the same one you are throwing away while living out your fear-filled fantasy - and the only life you'll ever have.

"Religion has caused more misery to all of mankind in every stage of human history than any other single idea." --Madalyn Murray O'Hair
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24-10-2013, 01:35 PM
RE: Raising Atheist children.
Oh jeez. Don't listen to excubitor.

It sounds like you're doing a fine job raising your girls alone, which is a hard task for anyone. Don't let anyone tell you that you're doing a substandard job just because you're not indoctrinating and brainwashing them. Morality without god is entirely possible.

Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who has said it- not even if I have said it- unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense. - Buddha
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